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Author Topic: Let's talk about the numbers you love  (Read 13478 times)

Weninho

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Let's talk about the numbers you love
« on: November 21, 2012, 05:01:30 PM »

To all you that praised Lotito in this topic, stating that Lazio is the most profitable club in Serie A: I really would like your opinion on this. Those of you that tried to lecture us and said that we didn't saw the importance in making money, why haven't you enlightened us of these recent numbers? And how will you find a way to defend Lotito now, when your key argument is falling apart? Don't say we didn't warn you because had you only looked at the situation with sober eyes you would have understood that your numbers didn't mean a thing.

So Lazio has closed the first three months (July-September) of 2012/2013 with a loss of 5,24 million euro. That's a fact. And there is nothing that indicates the numbers will turn, especially since tha total salary mount has gone up compared to last year while the money from the sponsors have been halved. And the battle for tv-money that made Lotito enemy with almost every president in the country did not result in any significant improvement as Lazio is still inferior to both Roma and Napoli.

But it's when you look at the bilancio and where the money goes that it starts to get depressing. Here is an article in Italian by Stefano Greco that sums everything up in a brilliant way. Other than salery's to completely usuless players like Foggia, Carrizo, Diakité, Sculli and Matuzalem - and Tare's complete failure in selling any of them this summer - Lazio still keeps transfering money to Lotito's own companies. And as you know some of those companies are under econimical pressure for not paying their employes salery for 6 months.

In total, s.s. Lazio has transfered a total sum of 920.000 euro only these three months to the various companies owned and managed by Lotito. Including Salernitana, which is payed 150.000 per three months for "the use of commercial rights and marketing". The other companies are payed for various services such as security and maintainence of Formello or such as catering around Europa League games. I'm no expert in economics and I'm sure that everything is handled correct and fair by s.s. Lazio but even the biggest Lotito-defender in this forum should really see the reason why he stays in this club. He was put there by politics, and this is what he got in return. It's simple to see really. Claudio Lotito has no interest other than egoistic in the success of La Lazio. Lazio is a tool for him.

You that attacked us with the numbers and said that it was important to be profitable to build for the future, do you still believe in that? Do you still believe your vision that Lazio is bulding for the future with a solid project and an impressive patience? WELL OPEN YOUR EYES! Lazio is loosing money. We're loosing money because year after year we've lost both sponsors and spectators. We're loosing money because our mercato is no no longer auto-financed by the sells that did never happen in the summer. We're loosing money because we spend it on things that is not in the best interest of Lazio but for someone else. And on top of that, we have one of the oldest squad in Serie A with no youth academy. And you still think we're building for the future!?

This is your reality with Lotito. It's finally catching up. This what you've been defending for all these years. Here is your project.
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MCRLaziale

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Re: Let's talk about the numbers you love
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2012, 02:15:24 AM »

Great post. It is a real shame because after Juve, there isn't much between the next 5 or 6 teams, and  a serious owner would have recognised this and invested in the summer to capitalise on that, like the Della Valle's have at Fiorentina; CL qualification and the financial rewards that come with it could have facilitated potential not associated with Lazio in the last 10 years. As a squad we are mostly either ageing or mediocre, with only Marchetti, Hernanes (who has predictably disappeared once the winter cold arrived) and Lulic the only saleable assets. We don't even own half the rights to Candreva....

It has got to a point where I've begrudgingly come to accept that Lotito is going nowhere, a view which I believe is reflected by the attendances at the Olimpico over the last few seasons. Lotito expects us to be content with falling short in the race for a top 3 spot, a few free transfers outrageously declared champions and a reluctance to compete in the Market for the best young Italian talents.
Our lack of credible youth set up really bothers me, as the scum we share the City with are discovering and promoting Roman talent; if we arent going to spend real money, the least we can do is create our own stars.
On the surface, we appear to be doing ok, but with a serious owner without a devious, selfish agenda we could do so much more.....



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Cathal

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Re: Let's talk about the numbers you love
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2012, 09:09:15 AM »

I would say you're a bit early with this post, Johan, but I think the point is valid and this topic deserves more attention.

The loss in itself is not of much concern. You rightly point out that the loss can be blamed solely on the salaries of players we have no intention of playing. For me, it's difficult to know where to point the finger there. Yes, it's Lotito and/pr Tare and/or Petkovic who have frozen them out but their issues date back also to coaches such as Delio Rossi and Edy Reja. I appreciate what both did for Lazio, but both are pretty strict customers who failed to get on with everyone so, is this loss the cost of previous successes? Are Lotito and Tare 100% to blame? A good run in the league and Europa League will wipe out that loss anyway.

My defence of the hierarchy, if you will, has always been that I feel finances were/are paramount and that Lotito was undeniably doing a good job of managing them. I've never denied, however, that he was managing them in the wrong way. And this is the proof.

It's also the proof of something I've been saying for a very long time (back to the good old debates with Conn et al.). There was always going to come a point in Lotito's ownership where Lazio's interests were usurped by Lotito's interests. This is now happening, and it is now that the fans need to make a stand. I said this three to four years ago.

Lotito is acting now because we are stable and doing well and in all likelihood, we have peaked and he knows this climate discourages fans from standing our ground. He has created the right environment to build the Lotito Stadium and he has established a side-project - both are potentially detrimental to us. We are Lazio though, and we have Lazialita' and we need to show him that he's wrong.

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drazvan

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Re: Let's talk about the numbers you love
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2012, 10:03:24 AM »

Wait wait. I am not a Lotito fan, but I think you jump to conclusions too fast. So we made a 5 mil euro lost in the 3 months of the season. Well, only the salaries of unused players (Matu, Carizzo, Diakite, Sculli, Foggia, Stanke, Zauri, etc) account for most of that in my opinion. Plus the fact that we do have some expensive players on our lists (Zarate, Ederson, Floc) compared to last season. So it is fair to say that the large squad and the big number of expensive players accounts for the lost.
You make a big fuzz about the 900k transfered to Lotito's companies. Well, remember also that we did pay some huge for us transfer fees (Hernanes - 11.5, Zarate - 20, Matu - 6, etc). If you look at the numbers, Lotito invested constantly 5-6 mil extra for the past 3-4 years. You can ofcourse argue that the investments were not wise, but he did put the money. So I don't find it unfair that he also helps his companies when in need. He is a businessman and Lazio is one of his assets. He can balance the money in everyway he can. We can argue that he does not invest enough or that he pays more to one part of the business than another but the truth is that the numbers don't really sustain that: Lazio is by far his biggest expense.
To conclude, I would not say that Lotito is a bad president or that he is doing something surprising. You would be surprised how much money Morratti gets from Inter and distributes to other companies or how much income from Milan went to Berlusconi's political campaigns...

What I find annoying is that Lotito is a mid-table president while Lazio is a top club. With Lotito, as he said it many times, we will NOT fight to win Serie A as it is not financially profitable. So we will always be a mediocre club who can have a good season now and then, maybe get a CL spot and get some more money. But we will not be a team ready to fight for Serie A. You see it happen year after year...always 4-5th place, never invest that extra bit. Good is good enough, that is Lotito.
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blue-white

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Re: Let's talk about the numbers you love
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2012, 10:06:36 AM »

Interesting Wheninho.

I have to say - that I never really defended Lotito, but I also never said that he makes all wrong.
In my opinion - no other one would do it real better in the moment i guess....except someone who has so much money that it doesn't matter how much he loose of it...

Fact is - it doesn't suprise me that Lazio loose money. Nearly every team in Italy loose money, because there is no money in the moment to earn. So there is only a way to loose in the moment. The biggest reason of that is the economic crisis. If we take a look to other teams - most of them were only able to keep their current players - some other teams like Milan, had to sell!

Wheninho is absolutely right that saleries of useless players are heavy for the club, but for loosing that money - it's not the biggest problem. As I said - the biggest problem for all clubs is the economic crisis.
Useless saleries / not selling useless players  and taking money from the club for own companies only makes this getting more worse! That's clear!
Taking money from the club and using it for the own companies.......I also get angry when I read something like that - and this should be stopped.....but - to be realistic - other presidents are doing the same. Nearly every president of an italian club has his club for his toy. To be in love with his club - this is what fans want to see, but we will not find this president!
Cragnotti also used the club as his toy and was taking money from the club for his companies when he saw that his companies are loosing too much money.

I'm the first one who says - bring in a new president who is doing his best for this club - who is living for his club because he loves this club.........BUT.....show me one person who will do this!

As long as we don't have an alternative for a new president (who will do it better), I hope that Lotito is trying his best.

usampa

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Re: Let's talk about the numbers you love
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2012, 11:20:45 AM »

Can someone explain me in more details which political party stays behind Lotito. Because that statement emerge on occasion : He was put there by politics... Didn't Italy changed their government, usually when there are some authorities shifts, the old pawns(Lotito in these case) are thrown away... Who is Lotito's circle of influence, those kind of things should be clear to the Italian supporters  or at least Italian speaking fans...
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phantomm1976

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Re: Let's talk about the numbers you love
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2012, 02:16:41 PM »

 Interesting topic and good points(not only one side or only one mistakes),
 Frozen players coast us a lot,not giving them a chance will coast also a lot(we can never took some good money if we sell them),
 Lotito have his mistakes(clear for us),Tare-maybe the best chance to prove himself as the good SD(pressure on petko(use the frozen players),travelings around the europe and try to offload an least 3-4 of them :vcool:.
 We are to static and to slow(not only in the field) :ohnoo:
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Eka_Baron

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Re: Let's talk about the numbers you love
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 07:36:16 AM »

Arsenal get £150m injection from sponsor


this is an example the money we can get from main sponsor that appears in front of the football club jersey. 150 mil!

Just imagine how much we lost for 5 years that because we can't attract sponsor/lotito stubborness to refuse all the sponsor who would come to Lazio  :sevil:
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usampa

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Re: Let's talk about the numbers you love
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2012, 09:43:21 AM »

The difference is that no one would give us such a money. As far as I know Lotito refused some sponsors because he believed they didn't give us enough...I don't know how high were those offers, but I imagine it was lower than 10 million per year, so if that is the case maybe he has a reason..
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Eka_Baron

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Re: Let's talk about the numbers you love
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2012, 10:17:50 AM »

yup,brother. I'm not saying that a sponsor will give such an amount like fly emirates gives to Arsenal. its just an example...

Btw,under 10 mil was good for a club like Lazio....from the amount of fan base,club popularity,club achievement, etc

still its better than nothing  :vcool:

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