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Author Topic: CIES Observatory Rankings  (Read 4665 times)

drazvan

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Re: CIES Observatory Rankings
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2015, 12:53:45 PM »

Hahaha
You know my response to this study guys.

I am disappointed.
There must be some flaws in the method they use.
How many people does this research institue has? Where does the data come from?
66% of minutes? First, what minute do they mean? Second, number-wise, is 66 something based on research or just their own number to exclude Felipe Anderson?

i actually do not find this strange. Felipe Anderson was good only in the past 3 months. And he is in a tougher competition than De Vrij or Biglia. He needs to fight names like Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, etc. We can fool ourselves and say that Felipe is better than all of them, but truth being said he still needs to prove some consistency and skills over a longer period of time.
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Rizmo

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Re: CIES Observatory Rankings
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2015, 01:05:42 PM »

This study was only for 2015 and not all season so I also find it strange Felipe didnt make the list.

But 66% is 2/3 of the game so a normal number to make the study.
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"Maki man, Maki man, e'erbody do the Maki man, cos Maki can, Maki can, e'erbody know that Maki can cos he da man, he da man, e'erbody know that he da man, so be his fan, be his fan, e'erbody be the Maki fan" - Caxi dropping some truth on ya'll.

drazvan

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Re: CIES Observatory Rankings
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2015, 01:24:21 PM »

I am more shocked to see that Cristiano Ronaldo did not make it...I mean he has like 15 goals and 10 assists in 2015...you would think that he will make it on the list in front of an injured Robben or a not so in shape Diego Costa...and Eder is on that list...hmmm...
this is not a very objective statistic in my opinion.
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Rizmo

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Re: CIES Observatory Rankings
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2015, 01:49:13 PM »

Thats what I said before. This study must exclude goals and assists and take everything else into consideration. Strange yes...
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... but I'm sure I'm correct and you are wrong.

"Maki man, Maki man, e'erbody do the Maki man, cos Maki can, Maki can, e'erbody know that Maki can cos he da man, he da man, e'erbody know that he da man, so be his fan, be his fan, e'erbody be the Maki fan" - Caxi dropping some truth on ya'll.

rivo

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Re: CIES Observatory Rankings
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2015, 02:39:08 PM »

Drazvan, dont you get that this study is using data from 3 months back? And Felipe has been wonderful since three months that he became a nominee for ESPN FC players of March if i remember correctly.

Rizmo, what exactly 2/3 of games does mean? Can someone here explain to me more what 66% of minutes mean? Thanks. Cathal since you seem to understand it, please I need your explanation about it. Study has biases, and I believe one of them in this study, which is clearly smelled, is human bias. 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 02:44:54 PM by rivo »
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drazvan

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Re: CIES Observatory Rankings
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2015, 03:06:04 PM »

Drazvan, dont you get that this study is using data from 3 months back? And Felipe has been wonderful since three months that he became a nominee for ESPN FC players of March if i remember correctly.

Rizmo, what exactly 2/3 of games does mean? Can someone here explain to me more what 66% of minutes mean? Thanks. Cathal since you seem to understand it, please I need your explanation about it. Study has biases, and I believe one of them in this study, which is clearly smelled, is human bias.

This study is using data from 2015. we had 14 games in serie a in 2015 and felipe missed 4 and in 2 played only 45 min. so approx 9 games out of 14. That means 64%. So less than 66%. I think this is what Cathal means.

Now Ronaldo played in 15 out of 17 games for Real and scored 13 goals and gave 5 assists. I find it really weird that he is not on the list.

But like somebody else said, the study does not seem to look at goals/assists but other more subjective criteria. All in all: who cares? it seems only Cavanda checks this kind of studies...maybe he will ask them why is he not included in the list, he is afterall the best right wing in the world.
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rivo

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Re: CIES Observatory Rankings
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2015, 03:08:47 PM »

I quote this from CIES.
#startofquote
Key performance indicators
Shooting: ability to exploit goal opportunities through accurate shooting
Chance creation: ability to putting teammates in a favourable position to score
Take on: ability to create advantageous situations by successfully challenging opponents
Distribution: ability to keep a hold on the game through efficient passing
Recovery: ability to minimise opponents’ chances through proficient interception work
Rigour: ability to minimise opponents’ chances through robust duelling
#endofquote

And if you see the pdf file, theres a simple graphic on the bottom left that tells us all these key performance Indicators (KPI) are somehow calculated to get the pitch performance (PP) in numbers. Well this is totally a tough work to first get the individual KPI, and they need a big community to track all players in europe and put them in numbers. And how they calculate a defender's PP, attacking midfielder? Using no weighting? Like AM has to get more weight on Chance Creation. And then they also say "To limit bias, only footballers having played at least 66% of match time since the start of the season are included in the study". This isnt limiting the bias!  This is the researcher's limit, if I understand it correctly, thus throwing away shining player like Felipe Anderson.
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rivo

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Re: CIES Observatory Rankings
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2015, 03:13:47 PM »

Drazvan, how on earth can a player in injured state be calculated? Its non sense. To limit the bias, exclude missed match(es). Simple.
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Cathal

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Re: CIES Observatory Rankings
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2015, 03:25:17 PM »

The CIES Observatory analysed the best players in Europe over a 3-month period by looking at the following categories: shooting, chance creation, take on, rigour, recovery and distribution. Each category is weighted according to the importance of the skills. Goals would obviously be a part of the shooting criteria and assists part of chance creation. Whether you agree with the criteria or not, that's up to you guys.

In the first 3 months of 2015, Biglia, de Vrij and Basta were among the best players in their positions according to this study.

The study only counts players who have played 66% of minutes during that period. As Felipe Anderson was injured for much of that 3-month period, he would not have been included in the findings of the study.

The CIES have many statistics which might be of interest. For example, Lazio have picked up 1.79 points when de Vrij has played but only 1.44 points when Klose played. Juventus and Lazio signed less players in the summer than all other Serie A clubs (7), yet we're the top 2 teams in the league. Lazio have more foreigners in their team than any other Serie A club (82.1%). Foreign players stay at Lazio longer than at 17 other Serie A sides on average. Lazio are among the oldest squads in Italy (average of 28.2) which in turn is among the oldest leagues in Europe.

Their statistics are very useful. And in this case, I don't think they've manipulated the data to exclude Felipe Anderson and Cristiano Ronaldo.
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drazvan

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Re: CIES Observatory Rankings
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2015, 04:02:24 PM »

Drazvan, how on earth can a player in injured state be calculated? Its non sense. To limit the bias, exclude missed match(es). Simple.

it seems like you dont understand what i say. what i try to say is that THEY consider only percentages of games played this year. injured, suspended, etc - all same. how many minutes a player played compared to the total number of games. this to avoid that Cavanda is the best right wing in the world after playing a game.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 04:04:44 PM by drazvan »
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