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Author Topic: Tactics Discussion  (Read 30620 times)

Evesto

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Re: Tactics Discussion
« Reply #530 on: September 03, 2018, 07:21:30 PM »

What was new yesterday was Radu playing leftback in support of Lulic who therefore could remain higher.  A new tactic to face a mirrored formation 35* where the centre is packed.  Inzaghi overloaded the leftwing basically eliminating Zampano, Frosinone's rightwinger.

Inzaghi never did this last season when facing mirrored lineups because the attack mostly had enough to handle it.  But when not being in full shape and scoring form it was a new move to beat Frosinone, and it could have certainly given a much higher result looking back at the missed chances.

Another new tactic in Inzaghi's hybrid 3511 wich is positive, we cannot be a one trick pony.  That wasn't the case last season and it looks it won't be now either.
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torsten

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Re: Tactics Discussion
« Reply #531 on: September 04, 2018, 02:43:45 AM »

What was new yesterday was Radu playing leftback in support of Lulic who therefore could remain higher.  A new tactic to face a mirrored formation 35* where the centre is packed.  Inzaghi overloaded the leftwing basically eliminating Zampano, Frosinone's rightwinger.

Inzaghi never did this last season when facing mirrored lineups because the attack mostly had enough to handle it.  But when not being in full shape and scoring form it was a new move to beat Frosinone, and it could have certainly given a much higher result looking back at the missed chances.

Another new tactic in Inzaghi's hybrid 3511 wich is positive, we cannot be a one trick pony.  That wasn't the case last season and it looks it won't be now either.

Thought about this aswell. Said it before, but this is why i feel that Caceres will be very useful for us. He could be that guy on the other side, so him and Radu can switch of being further out on the wing.
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Alessandro Nesta, Fernando Couto, Stefano Fiore, Tommaso Rocchi, Stefano Mauri, Giuseppe Biava, Federico Marchetti, Danilo Cataldi, Sergej Milinkovic-Savic, Simone Inzaghi, Ciro Immobile, Marco Parolo

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Re: Tactics Discussion
« Reply #532 on: September 04, 2018, 03:46:31 PM »

I wouldn't see Radu playing further left as a strict tactical move by Inzaghi. Frosinone played very deep and hardly invested resources into attacking, so it basically happened by default. Can't play like that in most Serie A games, as opponents will overload the middle and kill us. It's really more of a small wrinkle than anything else.

After the first 3 games, the break comes at the right time for us, because it doesn't look pretty what we are doing. Win was important, but lots of work to do for Inzaghi.

At least LA and SMS made a step up, especially LA looked quicker and crisper in his actions. SMS for my liking still too many easy errors that lead to counters, which is deadly against quality opponents. After the break I hope that both are close to last season's form.

Parolo always a step too late. You can't question his heart, he is running his socks off. But other than being good in aerial duels, which is certainly helpful, he has lost his edge. I love Parolo and all what he's done for us, but at this point he should be more of a rotational player than week in week out starter. Can't wait for Berisha being fit again and Badelj with some more time with the team. We will be able to have a good rotation and quite a few tactical variations, depending on who starts in midfield. This will be very important once EL starts.

What worries me is that opponents know by now that we pose no threat down the wings. They can just pack the middle to block the paths of SMS and LA, while Ciro is isolated against 3 or 4 defenders. Marusic is a liability in defense and clueless in attack. Lulic is great as always, but he can't use the space in front of him anymore. Would love Durmisi given a run in EL to get him acclimated. Unfortunately, my analysis of Lulic brought me to the conclusion that he fares better on the left than right. Of course he can play on the right and offer better defensive stability. But the only threat he has going forward is cutting inside on his stronger foot. On the right side, he is limited to hugging the touchline, which makes him totally useless in attack.

If the results still aren't there in a month or so, I could easily see Inzaghi ditching his 3511 concept and switch to 4231. It's not ideal because we lack true wingers, so it will be a narrower 4231. But between SMS-LA-Correa-Berisha-Murgia we have players who could potentially play behind Ciro. This would also allow us to finally see Leiva-Badelj together, which I think will help us to control the game as well as break up opposing attacks.

I wanted Inzaghi to take more of a 3421 approach, but if our wingbacks keep hurting our defense and create nothing in attack, I'm eager to see a back line of Radu-Acerbi-Wallace-Caceres sooner rather than later. Keep a solid back four protected by Leiva-Badelj and allow our attacking minded midfielders to focus on what they do best.

Still, I imagine Inzaghi will stick with 3511 and only switch if we keep struggling. Maybe we could use EL to try something new, depending on how serious we take it.
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Evesto

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Re: Tactics Discussion
« Reply #533 on: September 04, 2018, 08:00:36 PM »

I wouldn't see Radu playing further left as a strict tactical move by Inzaghi. Frosinone played very deep and hardly invested resources into attacking, so it basically happened by default. Can't play like that in most Serie A games, as opponents will overload the middle and kill us. It's really more of a small wrinkle than anything else.

I would normally tend to agree with this time not so much.  The last time Radu pushed so high was last season during the 4-0 win against Sampdoria.  This weekend especially during the first half Radu was very much a leftback and hereby letting Lulic remain high practically as an attacking winger.

Acerbi & Wallace formed an defensive pair more or less, making Marusic somewhat between fullback and wingback.

Inzaghi hinted at a formation change after Juve but reportadly the starting players changed his mind after talks.  Maybe this was something he still pushed through.  Also noting that near the end of the game at Juve there was a backline visable of Durmisi - Radu - Acerbi - Wallace. 
Durmisi pushing higher of course and Wallace as RB staying in line with the central pair.

So both these moments are actually quit noticable imo.

Maybe it can all be placed in Inzaghi's comments during the summer that he would aim to concede less in the new season. 
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phantomm1976

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Re: Tactics Discussion
« Reply #534 on: September 20, 2018, 12:53:12 PM »

 This season we become more and more predictable. Players like Badelj-Corea can offer us more technically.
 Put on that Caceres in team-we can easily turn on four men defense.
 I dont understand Inzaghi.
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blue-white

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Re: Tactics Discussion
« Reply #535 on: September 20, 2018, 12:55:47 PM »

This season we become more and more predictable. Players like Badelj-Corea can offer us more technically.
 Put on that Caceres in team-we can easily turn on four men defense.
 I dont understand Inzaghi.

why 4 men defense when our formation of last season brought us the team with the most scored goals? ...

changing system would not be good - bringing better defenders during the market sounds more logical.

phantomm1976

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Re: Tactics Discussion
« Reply #536 on: September 20, 2018, 01:13:55 PM »

 How many goals we score during April-May ?
 How many our goals came after set pieces?
 How many goals we concede ?
 Do we saw something during first four rounds,friendly's ?
 How much is Ciro scoring during the last matches of last season,in wich way he scored,did he scored a three points goal or goals when the match is finished(third or four goal)?
 Did Ciro score from first chance ?
 Last season nobody expected our 3511 at the beginning of season , this year every one knows how we will play.
 Did Marusic showed progress to count on his side(like in left ones)?
 One more midfielder-winger or even Caicedo alongside Ciro could be the option.
 At least plan-b.
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Cathal

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Re: Tactics Discussion
« Reply #537 on: September 20, 2018, 01:21:40 PM »

How many goals we score during April-May ?
 How many our goals came after set pieces?
 How many goals we concede ?
 Do we saw something during first four rounds,friendly's ?
 How much is Ciro scoring during the last matches of last season,in wich way he scored,did he scored a three points goal or goals when the match is finished(third or four goal)?
 Did Ciro score from first chance ?
 Last season nobody expected our 3511 at the beginning of season , this year every one knows how we will play.
 Did Marusic showed progress to count on his side(like in left ones)?
 One more midfielder-winger or even Caicedo alongside Ciro could be the option.
 At least plan-b.

We have to remember that last April and May, Immobile, LA and Parolo all had injuries, pre-season is simply pre-season, and we've only lost competitive games to two sides that finished above us in Serie A last season.

If we continue to struggle, something will have to change, but all the evidence points to the fact that when we lose, it's because our players are not good enough rather than the failings of the system.

This suggestion Inzaghi has to change tactics to succeed is unfair. Man City lost at home to Lyon last night playing the same way Pep's teams have done for a decade, playing the same way Pep's teams have been getting destroyed in Europe for the last 5 years, and still he's regarded as the best manager in the world with nobody suggesting he should change things up.

Let's not make up different rules for one of our own. Like many top managers, he's got great results playing a certain way and like many top managers, he's not going to change after 1 or 2 dodgy results.
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ilsemprelaziale

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Re: Tactics Discussion
« Reply #538 on: September 20, 2018, 02:20:22 PM »

I am a big fan of changing the formation, but purely for the sake of fixing the problems we have in the defence.

It's too early for us to consider changing tactics when it comes to building up play and attacking. Lets be honest here, the players who carried the team in attacking last season has been invisible. Luis Alberto and Sergej has not played one good match yet so far out of the 4 we played..they were both awful if you want to consider last year's overall performance compared to what they showed so far this season. Then there's Ciro, he made that wonder goal against Napoli, but other than that he's not really been lethal has he?

I am hoping this has more to do with not being properly prepared for this season rather than a decline in form for those players.

But yes it is concerning that we're four matches into the season and something looks completely off compared to last season.
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phantomm1976

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Re: Tactics Discussion
« Reply #539 on: September 20, 2018, 03:26:59 PM »

 When players are not good enough - its another story.
 LA-SMS had excellent season, but the same system (both in the left) triangle with Ciro....is something that we didnt saw after match vs Juve 1-2(we won).
 I also understand that we have poor defense and Inzaghi was forced to use three CD. But one of our wings didnt improve nothing- and there's no new player for that role.
 Inzaghi didn't trust in LA-FA-SMS together, but Badelj is player that played in four men defense behind him, Corea also,Leiva defensive duty is better than every other in that role we had in past.
 Ciro start to escape from box....
 If we score a lot of goals-we concede to much goals also.
 I understand that players feels good in 3511, but when we becomes predictable than something needs to be change.
 Atleast get back LA deeper-playmaker role.
 I understand that it could happen that some matches players are not in their day-lose chances(like Ciro do)....but this season our chances came after set pieces,Lulic cross. LA once shot vs Juve and one action from last year (SMS to Ciro...LA shot vs Napoli).
 I m against comsider Juve-Sasuolo-Frosinone in same level. Inzaghi with this tactic do that .
 I think that at least in some matches he need to try something different.
 EL matches, team-b ? New players in field(not the first eleven).
 BTW we know that 3511 is great for lees technically players(Parolo-Murgia-RB-LB),could be risk with selfish player(FA behind Ciro)....but with this team ?! I M surprised that Inzaghi insist even when doesnt work(last 25-30 min etc).
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