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Author Topic: Lazio stakeholders  (Read 6093 times)

Rizmo

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2016, 09:45:43 PM »

This is a very interesting topic but I'm in deep water here with my pretty much non existent economic knowledge. But I'm sure there's more here like me who would like to know more and understand better so I'll ask the "dumb" questions  :razz:

If I follow correctly here, the conspiracy theory here is;

- Lotito is keeping the stock market value low because he wants to
- Take Lazio off the stock market and then
- Sell Lazio in a couple of years

How do you go forward in withdrawing a company from the stock market? I assume you have to pay all the shareholders something/the value of their shares? And when this is done, Lotito will want to make Lazio very profitable to rise the value and then sell us to the highest bidder? That sounds typical Lotito actually.

But I find it hard to follow Cathal's logic. Lotito would make money off Lazio being either on or off the stock market, no? He might've had a prestige project in the stadium but probably faced the truth in it being pretty much impossible, so now he goes for his other option which is what this thread is about. Lotito doesn't care if he makes billions when he's 70, as long as he does make billions. He's greed personified. And if he can't leave Lazio for his son he'll leave him with multiple other companies and billions to spare.
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... but I'm sure I'm correct and you are wrong.

"Maki man, Maki man, e'erbody do the Maki man, cos Maki can, Maki can, e'erbody know that Maki can cos he da man, he da man, e'erbody know that he da man, so be his fan, be his fan, e'erbody be the Maki fan" - Caxi dropping some truth on ya'll.

ilsemprelaziale

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2016, 09:49:40 PM »

Serious question now: Do any of you guys believe that Lotito is planning on selling the club in the near future?
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Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?

Insanity is doing the exact...same thing over and over again expecting shit to change.. That Is Crazy

Cathal

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2016, 10:05:34 PM »

Don't see how my logic is flawed. Lazio pays Lotito's companies for services. I'm sure Conn would have exact figures  :razz: but it's something like 10 million per year. So just by owning Lazio, Lotito can make 200 million over the next 20 years. Now, I don't think Lotito would make 200 million from a sale anytime soon, not when Lazio don't have a stadium to call home.

So why sell any time soon?
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Cathal

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2016, 04:57:40 PM »

I am open to a discussion on the economics at Lazio. It's something I've followed for some time despite having limited knowledge.

I can see the case for many of these arguments. Lotito wants to make money out of Lazio? Yes, he has Lazio pay his other companies for their services, so it's happening. Lotito not doing everything in his power to make Lazio competitive? Yes, we haven't had a shirt sponsor for years now, that would certainly indicate so.

But I can't get involved into a certain aspect of this discussion because it's a strong accusation being made with no real evidence, and I don't think this is the place for it anyway.

I would strongly disagree with you on some of the points you make. Lazio has the same potential as Dortmund? No. No we don't. Dortmund has a huge regional fanbase and Lazio couldn't get the attendances Dortmund bring in if we had a new stadium and paid everyone to turn up.

Lotito could make 100 million a year from Lazio? Lazio barely generates enough revenue to pay the players. It's like saying I have the potential to be the Pope. I do, but I'm not going to be.
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Cathal

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2016, 05:51:09 PM »

I have  since over 5 years specialized in soccer business. And in financial markets and company valuation much longer of course.

I appreciate that, but I have 20+ years of experience following Lazio and I can tell you quite simply, Lazio ain't got Borussia Dortmund's potential.

To be clear, Lazio could one day be the most valuable club in the world and generate 400, 500, 600 million euro in revenue - I don't dispute that - but we don't have the potential that exists in other clubs. Dortmund are entitled to be one of the world's biggest clubs given their fanbase; Lazio do not have that right. We would have to build a dynasty like Manchester United, hope that things change dramatically in Italy with regards to the game, hope that Roma do badly and hope 30, 40, 50 other teams do not realise their potential. It's so much easier for Dortmund because they are, in every respect, a huge club. They were 5-10 years ago when they had massive debt. Lazio have never been a big club in that sense.

I accept that you are raising questions which require answering, but none of us have the answers, right? That's why you're digging. But what I think you might be overlooking is how difficult it would be for Lazio to get anywhere close to where Dortmund are now.

It would take maybe 10 years of investing wisely and being in the Champions League on a regular basis to get to where Dortmund are now, and then of course, you're 10 years down the line. Everyone else will have moved forward.

I've said in this forum that Dortmund is a model any team should follow, but I accept Lazio need to do it better to get there. That's tough going.

Anyway, seems you want me to keep quiet and let others talk so that I'll do  :vcool:
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 05:54:04 PM by Cathal »
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lazio-stakeholder

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2016, 06:12:08 PM »

Cathal, of course not  SAME potential as Dortmund or Bayern.

But Bayern is by Forbes and KPMG yet valued over 2 billion Euro .. and Dortmund can a few years later also reach that next tremendous milestone..


But Lazio in exactly the same way as Dortmund will manage to explode revenues from entering Champions League.

And no matter  whether Milan clubs manage it or Roman clubs .. those who manage (as Juventus) to become top in Italy  WILL automatically  build such tremendous value.

At least Milan Investors from China (probably not having followed those clubs for 20 years either) DO understand that .

I was at PSV Eindhoven (student at that time in that city) 1978 Europe finals in stadium.
Palotta a few years ago hadn't seen a  single soccer game but he definately already from USA knew how much money  he can make from  possessing privately a sporting club.

I don' like to repeat myself.. but if Lotito (from a financial standpoint) could be trusted, HE WOULD as fast as possible do something on Investors relations.

However seems to follow same strategy as Palotta : in between a world wide soccer marketing boom, stealing a club on the dirt cheap.

All Facts point in that same direction and I believe all fans, club and other stakeholders then Lotito have good reasons  to be very worried about that.

Same holds for AS Roma.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 06:22:29 PM by lazio-stakeholder »
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Cataldi4thewin

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2016, 11:33:06 PM »

My 2 cents.

Cathal is more right than Lazio-stakeholder. I disagree with Cathal that Lazio can never be like Dortmund.  And I disagree how simple in plain text Lazio-stakeholder is making it out to be.

It would take a lot of changes from Lotito to pursue something large. First, catching up to Napoli's level of competence and re$ource$, then using the Capital as a revenue stream. The Olimpico sell out the Lazio old-timer all-star ' di padre in figlio' games, and the 3rd place finish season had attendances booming. He needs to capitalize on that. Competence, resources, and fan base is only the tip of the iceberg. Dortmund sells out every game meaning their concessions, Champions League winnings, League winnings, and sale of players at peak value have really been skyrocketing revenue. This is something romass is pursuing sadly, but they haven't won the league, failed to qualify for champions, have only decent attendances, they buy players at peak price, and haven't got their stadium approved yet. They are dreamers and Lotito is not, but the first step of success is seeing it, like you know exactly what you want. I hope Lotito starts being ambitious and starts realizing the real potential.
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Lazio need more Romans

Dakiller961

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2016, 08:49:37 AM »

Lazio stakeholder has a lot of sense in his analysis and it is certainly a very refreshing point of view but it is quite a complicated conspiracy theory.
If true, then i can only but be amazed at what a diabolical mastermind lotito is !
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Cataldi4thewin

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2016, 10:26:37 PM »

Hey.... Hey... Buddy..

Simple formula.

Lazio Victories + High Attendances = Cash Money.

Lazio Victories + Champions League = Very Nice Money

Lazio Scudetto Championship + Champions League = Dortmund


...You can delete your previous post now.

Your Welcome and sleep soundly.
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Lazio need more Romans

Giolazio

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2016, 12:53:31 PM »

You talk as if it's easy to enter the Champions League, like we have been trying to avoid it for the last 15 years...there are 3 spots and 8 teams that can finish there, it's not that easy.

Even if we do it once like two years ago, we still have to qualify via the playoffs and the likelihood of us finishing in the top 3 the following season is minimal.

What you propose could be the same for Fiorentina, Genoa, Bologna, Torino -  teams with bigger fan bases than ours and that's not mentioning getting the better of Roma, Milan, Inter and Napoli for the two spots behind Juve.....
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