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Author Topic: Lazio stakeholders  (Read 6125 times)

drazvan

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #160 on: October 22, 2017, 06:23:35 PM »

I really don't get your point with squad at 300 mil -> shares 3-4 euro. Our net assets are about 10 mil euro. That is basically what you, as investor, invest in. The fact that the team is valued now at 300 mil does not say much. Say that we keep De Vrij and Milinkovic until they get old, you won't see any money from them and you will have to pay their 2.5 mil per year salary. So our squad might value on paper 1 billion - it's not the money you translate into shares. What you translate into shares might be that a 1 billion euro team is so strong that they might win stuff, bring more supporters to the stadium, get more tv rights and in general improve our net assets. Which eventually will make the share price increase. In my opinion, the current shares price is twice as much as it should be. We have 22 mil euro value for 10 mil euro net assets. Unless we make it to CL, there is no justification for this high price. Which tells me that the price is highly inflated by people hoping that this is the season. But that's just my view on it, I'm not really trying to convince anybody.
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lazio-stakeholder

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #161 on: October 23, 2017, 09:55:15 AM »

Its is in fact for me in every manner exactly the other way around...

I belieive that you as a long year football fan should be able to understand that no Lazio in the world could keep a squad of 1 billion euro, and also far less,  together.
And from an economical standpoint it would be completely crazy to not cash on some players than as well.

I try as an investor to find anomalies and for some five years ago pointed such aspects so oft out at discussions on Borussia Dortmund.. created at the time also various charts on tremendous hidden value in young BVB squad.

You refer tot net assets of just 10 million euro.
Watzke of BVB last years several times pointed out situation at BVB .. by far to low (official) net assets compared to in fact in past years having built tremendous secret (hidden) assets

Bookkeeping of football clubs is something completely different than n other business areas...!!
But that special aspect as a soccer fan you should be able to understand.

For a potential shareholder, it in fact is a very attractive aspect for a Lazio to have bought a Sergej (and almost all other players) for virtually nothing, thus automatically having its squad value very low in balance sheet.
Discrepancies between (about) market and book value, in fact explain which clubs in the past invested more clever in their by far most important assets.
Furthermore it explains that at such clubs by far bigger profits are to arrive (and automatically will), as soon as some of the better players are sold,  than at clubs that bought players for big money (because they have by far more spending power).

Manchester Uniteds market value at about 2,5 billion euro equals about 4 times revenues and also about 4 times its squad value.

Tiny Lazio however was in both areas even far below a multiple of one!, but nevertheless still being able to generate more profit than giant MANU. 
In fact also more likely to generate more profit (soon), since biggest clubs like MANU virtually don't have the need to sell their top players, and their top players hardly can find better conditions elsewhere either.

See e.g. my special squad overviews at Stakeholder, in which I tried to integrate these aspects and summarize them also in bar charts, and relating values to market value per share.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 10:19:54 AM by lazio-stakeholder »
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drazvan

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #162 on: October 23, 2017, 10:27:05 AM »

I am not sure why you keep calling it soccer. The game is football.

I am wondering if you understand the moral dilemma here: you as an investor just look at numbers and want to capitalize on players like De Vrij, SMS, Immobile, etc and get part of the cash. I as a fan couldn't care less about you. The total value of the shares is about 25 mil today - that wont pay for SMS's left foot (assuming he plays with his right). So what is your value for me as a fan? I want the players to stay to win trophies for these colors. I don't care about making a profit for you. I don't want people like you to force Lotito to sell our stars just because you think that he can get 300 mil euro and increase our share price to 3-4 euro so that you can make a nice profit.

I could not care less about your bar charts. I am on a forum and read stuff like this from you: "being able to generate by far more profit than ManU". So are you saying that we are able - at the moment - to generate more profit than ManU? that does not really improve your credibility here.
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lazio-stakeholder

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #163 on: October 23, 2017, 10:37:17 AM »

I am not sure why you keep calling it soccer. The game is football.

I am wondering if you understand the moral dilemma here: you as an investor just look at numbers and want to capitalize on players like De Vrij, SMS, Immobile, etc and get part of the cash. I as a fan couldn't care less about you. The total value of the shares is about 25 mil today - that wont pay for SMS's left foot (assuming he plays with his right). So what is your value for me as a fan? I want the players to stay to win trophies for these colors. I don't care about making a profit for you. I don't want people like you to force Lotito to sell our stars just because you think that he can get 300 mil euro and increase our share price to 3-4 euro so that you can make a nice profit.

I could not care less about your bar charts. I am on a forum and read stuff like this from you: "being able to generate by far more profit than ManU". So are you saying that we are able - at the moment - to generate more profit than ManU? that does not really improve your credibility here.

You don't care, but in the same time discuss on transfers.

Times in football have changed and mismanangements  of Cragnotti, Morattis and the likes can relatively easily be explained.

I am pretty sure that nowadays almost every decision maker of  football clubs cares about such relations and bar charts, as being in fact one of the most important tools for decision making.
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lazio-stakeholder

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #164 on: October 23, 2017, 11:07:22 AM »

And to make it clear once again.

As a shareholder of Lazio, i don't want a singe penny from any big transfer income.
All should be reinvested by the club in new young talents as well  as to be able to give some key players better conditions to keep them at least a few years longer.

Even in normal bussiness i very seldom buy shares of companies that pay dividends.
I want the companies of my choice to grow their operational business and invest in the first place only in companies of which i believe are better positioned for such growth than other ones, either in same sector or other sectors.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:13:29 AM by lazio-stakeholder »
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drazvan

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #165 on: October 23, 2017, 01:06:38 PM »

I am pretty sure that nowadays almost every decision maker of  football clubs cares about such relations and bar charts, as being in fact one of the most important tools for decision making.

And I am pretty sure that Lotito and other italian club owners don't. Actually I am not even sure why we are listed - I assume that it was purely a "transparency" measure requested by banks at some point to give us loans or to accept our debt split.

By the way, did you also take our debt into account in your 300 mil valuation?
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drazvan

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #166 on: October 23, 2017, 01:08:32 PM »

Times in football have changed and mismanangements  of Cragnotti, Morattis and the likes can relatively easily be explained.

And again - most people here would take Cragnotti back anytime and admire that period as the best in history. This is also my point - you do not care about the club as such. You care only about an investment and this is what makes you different than people on this forum. And this is what's annoying for us and frustrating for you.
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lazio-stakeholder

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Re: Lazio stakeholders
« Reply #167 on: October 25, 2017, 09:25:59 AM »

"By the way, did you also take our debt into account in your 300 mil valuation?"

O course, I consider debt situations when i compare companies.

But you could have known that from my site of course.
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