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Author Topic: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17  (Read 1762 times)

Cathal

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Re: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2017, 10:43:50 AM »

I'm glad someone voted for Lulic. I'm rarely surprised by these polls, but I am surprised to see Immobile running away with it (despite the fact I voted for him) and then also to see SMS sitting in 2nd place.

I respect the votes for SMS and I can see why based on the impact he's made and his performances in big games, but I really feel the need to say this in response to classifying him as the big game player and arguing he's been the most important player for us this season.

The most common criticism of this team early doors was that we weren't performing in big games. That turned around against Inter in the Coppa... and SMS was on the bench. He played his part, but that was a team performance that turned around big games for the team.

If we go on individual big game efforts, Keita scored 3 Derby goals and also got the equaliser against Napoli at the San Paolo, Immobile scored twice in the Coppa semis, Biglia was a standout performer in the Coppa win against Inter and arguably each of the three Derbies and Lulic was big in those games too, and we know his big game pedigree from 26 Maggio 2013.

I think there's only 6-7 players that I could understand anyone voting for and SMS is definitely one of those players, but a bit like Anderson two years ago, there's month-long periods he's been nowhere. I struggle to think what he achieved in the first half of the season or post-February in Serie A.
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Stefano6

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Re: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2017, 11:04:02 AM »

Glad you said it Cathal.
I too am happy Lulic got a vote, I almost voted for him myself, but I cant look past Immobiles goals and overall consistency, especially coming from 2 seasons of poor performances, I dont think any of us expected him to do so well.

Lulic for me deserves all the praise he gets, hes consistent, will play anywhere and do any job you ask him to do, without complaints, and he'll pop up with a goal here and there too. Everyone needs a Lulic.

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lazioserbia

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Re: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2017, 02:01:13 PM »

Rizmo you forgot to mention that he showed the middle finger to Inter fans and got us a few penalties...other than that it was a great post  :beer:

Can someone please tell me how many penalties Milinkovic Savic got and how many of the penalties we got were given on his assist...and his defensive stats would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
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Cathal

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Re: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2017, 02:17:01 PM »

SMS commits more fouls than any other Lazio player and is the Lazio player that is most often dribbled past by opposition players. He ranks behind Biglia, Parolo, Lulic and Anderson in terms of both tackles attempted and tackles completed. He is behind almost all our defenders and midfielders when it comes to interceptions. When it comes to blocks, he is 13th for blocking crosses and 12th for blocking shots but is 2nd behind Anderson in blocking passes.

Can't find how often a player has won a penalty for his team - would have to re-watch matches  :razz:
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lazioserbia

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Re: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2017, 03:12:36 PM »

He won the penalty against Fiorentina, passed to Immobile which led to a penalty but cannot remember which game it was...and I'm pretty sure he won at least one more penalty.

In all honesty Lulic deserves votes. Immobile has been on fire this season and is a hard worker.
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Rizmo

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Re: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2017, 10:28:23 PM »

I respect the votes for SMS and I can see why based on the impact he's made and his performances in big games, but I really feel the need to say this in response to classifying him as the big game player and arguing he's been the most important player for us this season.

The most common criticism of this team early doors was that we weren't performing in big games. That turned around against Inter in the Coppa... and SMS was on the bench. He played his part, but that was a team performance that turned around big games for the team.

If we go on individual big game efforts, Keita scored 3 Derby goals and also got the equaliser against Napoli at the San Paolo, Immobile scored twice in the Coppa semis, Biglia was a standout performer in the Coppa win against Inter and arguably each of the three Derbies and Lulic was big in those games too, and we know his big game pedigree from 26 Maggio 2013.

I think there's only 6-7 players that I could understand anyone voting for and SMS is definitely one of those players, but a bit like Anderson two years ago, there's month-long periods he's been nowhere. I struggle to think what he achieved in the first half of the season or post-February in Serie A.

No one said SMS was a big game player. The whole team struggled in the big games and I can't agree it has turned around after the Inter game. We drew Milan and lost to Napoli after that. The only big games we won were the derbies and that was mainly thanks to SMS. Yes Immobile scored twice but so did SMS, he scored the first ones as well which are hugely important. Keita also has 2 derby goals, not 3 and SMS has an assist on top of that.

You voted Immobile who didn't score for 2 months and contributed very little during that spell yet talk about month long periods where SMS was poor. SMS had some dips but was always contributing with winning areal duels etc. First half of the season he had 3 goals and 3 assists. He helped us immensly after the derby loss, where things can quickly go south after a loss, with the winner against Samp and then an assist against Viola in a period where Immobile went awol.

I don't know if post-february is a typo because the 1st leg was in March and we all know how that went. Just want to point out that I'm not trying to play down Ciro's season to make SMS look better cause Immobile has a sick season and I understand why he gets the votes but for me, SMS has made big improvements from his first year and is a more dominant figure and very important to our gameplan, in addition to knocking out merda from the semis he's my player of the season.

He's that type of player that fouls and gets fouled. Most fouled together with Keita. He also plays higher up the pitch then Biglia for example so it's natural that he get dribbled past more. His strenghts are in the air where he wins the ball for us more then any of our players wins the ball for us on the ground I believe.
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... but I'm sure I'm correct and you are wrong.

"Maki man, Maki man, e'erbody do the Maki man, cos Maki can, Maki can, e'erbody know that Maki can cos he da man, he da man, e'erbody know that he da man, so be his fan, be his fan, e'erbody be the Maki fan" - Caxi dropping some truth on ya'll.

Cathal

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Re: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2017, 10:56:22 PM »

You voted Immobile who didn't score for 2 months and contributed very little during that spell yet talk about month long periods where SMS was poor. SMS had some dips but was always contributing with winning areal duels etc.

This is where I think the argument comes undone a little.

I feel Immobile contributed immensely in the two months he hadn't been scoring. I voted for him simply because I can only remember two below average performances all season - I can only remember two good performances from SMS in the last two months. I think there's at least 4-5 players who have played at a higher level overall this season than SMS.

Secondly, I don't understand this 'aerial duels' argument - it's the one thing people come back to when explaining SMS influence. SMS has won 66% of his aerial duels this season. Hernanes at Juventus won 70% of his. You remember the days Hernanes 'dominated' in the midfield for Lazio with his aerial prowess? No, me either. Furthermore, Hoedt wins 86% of his duels - arguably the most dominant aerial player in the league (I suspect statistically he might be) - and no one says he dominates our defence. No one ever mentions his ability in the air - they talk about his feet. A big guy like SMS winning 66% of his duels is not really that special - Parolo was winning a similar percentage last season.

I do believe SMS deserves to be in contention, but what I find interesting in these discussions is that the things I appreciate in his game seem to be different to what his big admirers see in him.
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lazioserbia

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Re: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2017, 11:54:58 PM »

Keita has two goals and one assist in the Derby and Milinkovic Savic has two goals and two assists. Milinkovic Savic played 4 Derbies and the only time he wasn't crucial was when we lost in the first Derby...

Playing that many Derbies and playing them that well and relaxed is amazing for a kid his age, you're saying he hasn't been playing well in the last two months but what about the Derby?
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Cathal

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Re: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2017, 12:25:29 AM »

I can acknowledge that SMS was one of, if not the best player in both Coppa derbies - I am not disputing that. But there's no getting away from the fact that others made huge contributions, namely Immobile, Keita, Lulic and Biglia (although more than just them also).

In my opinion, SMS is well down on Biglia, Parolo, Lulic and Anderson in terms of defensive contribution, but I'd say over the season, at least Anderson and Lulic have been on par in terms of offensive production. Going on direct contribution to goals, they've a better tally despite arguably being in more defensive roles for much of the season.

Really, what I'm debating is this - people are saying SMS is the player of the season because he was excellent in two very important games, got some goals and assists and is better than he was last year, but that applies to 5-6 players. And when the next argument for SMS is 'he wins balls the air', I begin to wonder...
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Evesto

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Re: LazioLand Player of the Season 2016-17
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2017, 01:42:31 AM »

He's simply populair because of being directly involved in a few very important wins.  Therefore downsides throughout the season are easily being neglected.  It's simple to understand, that's how people are, it's only human. 

And i understand it really, Sergej weighs on defences and they can't deal with him properly.  Statisticly his lower ranked then players surrounding him but his presence and impact makes other things happen our way.  He's certainly also'a reason why other players had a great season.

I like him to, i can let things go because he's very young so his future self with him at Lazio can only improve.

But there's no legitament way for him to win this poll (yet).  The players you (Cathal) mentioned earlier would be in line to win it if Ciro wouldn't have scored 22 goals.  Stats prove it, never a way around that.  Felipe and Lulic defensive contributions and workrate combined with lot's of assist give them much more status then Sergej looking at the 'whole' season.

I made a few harsh arguments a while back in the MOTM polls, but things like this will never change.  Some vote based on clear stats, others vote on populairity or personal appreciation.  To be clear, i'm not disrespecting here, all are entitled to have a vote. 

Like i said i voted Ciro because of workrate and stats, and i'm not even really a fan of his type of football.
But things like that can't be a distraction while voting.

Ciro has to win it for the result to be just, but i do hope Felipe, Lulic, Parolo, Biglia and Keita get a few deserved votes also.
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