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Author Topic: Serie A: Crotone-Lazio, Sunday, 28-05-17  (Read 2623 times)

Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Crotone-Lazio, Sunday, 28-05-17
« Reply #110 on: May 31, 2017, 03:21:32 PM »

This debate is strange because "il sistema" has been going on in Italian football for so long, it has a name.

The strangest thing about the weekend wasn't Lazio's loss, it was Palermo beating Empoli.

I was expecting 'il sistema' to turn up a very different result, which is why I'm entering a debate. I would've thought those quick to jump on the faintest whiff of corruption would've said pre-game that Empoli would survive. Maybe, just maybe, what we saw at the weekend was genuine for a change. I agree if you were suggesting that the Palermo - Empoli game is the one that might look dodgy.

I think I remember you saying a few years ago when Crotone and Latina were contending for promotion to A that they'd never be allowed to get up because they are minnows. And sure enough, they didn't. But we've seen nothing but minnows succeed since.

Am I a fool for thinking that if the league was corrupt, Crotone wouldn't have survived? I just don't see any motive to allow them to stay up over Empoli, or for that matter, why Empoli would want to go down.
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moody

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Re: Serie A: Crotone-Lazio, Sunday, 28-05-17
« Reply #111 on: May 31, 2017, 03:32:12 PM »

This debate is strange because "il sistema" has been going on in Italian football for so long, it has a name.

The strangest thing about the weekend wasn't Lazio's loss, it was Palermo beating Empoli.

I was expecting 'il sistema' to turn up a very different result, which is why I'm entering a debate. I would've thought those quick to jump on the faintest whiff of corruption would've said pre-game that Empoli would survive. Maybe, just maybe, what we saw at the weekend was genuine for a change. I agree if you were suggesting that the Palermo - Empoli game is the one that might look dodgy.

I think I remember you saying a few years ago when Crotone and Latina were contending for promotion to A that they'd never be allowed to get up because they are minnows. And sure enough, they didn't. But we've seen nothing but minnows succeed since.

Am I a fool for thinking that if the league was corrupt, Crotone wouldn't have survived? I just don't see any motive to allow them to stay up over Empoli, or for that matter, why Empoli would want to go down.

The bookies would gain due to events going the most unexpected way, just like when Leicester city won the champions. A club's financial power is limited, however the wide pool of gamblers could make the most unexpected results.
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flurffmeister

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Re: Serie A: Crotone-Lazio, Sunday, 28-05-17
« Reply #112 on: May 31, 2017, 03:35:17 PM »

This debate is strange because "il sistema" has been going on in Italian football for so long, it has a name.

The strangest thing about the weekend wasn't Lazio's loss, it was Palermo beating Empoli.

I was expecting 'il sistema' to turn up a very different result, which is why I'm entering a debate. I would've thought those quick to jump on the faintest whiff of corruption would've said pre-game that Empoli would survive. Maybe, just maybe, what we saw at the weekend was genuine for a change. I agree if you were suggesting that the Palermo - Empoli game is the one that might look dodgy.

I think I remember you saying a few years ago when Crotone and Latina were contending for promotion to A that they'd never be allowed to get up because they are minnows. And sure enough, they didn't. But we've seen nothing but minnows succeed since.

Am I a fool for thinking that if the league was corrupt, Crotone wouldn't have survived? I just don't see any motive to allow them to stay up over Empoli, or for that matter, why Empoli would want to go down.

The bookies would gain due to events going the most unexpected way, just like when Leicester city won the champions. A club's financial power is limited, however the wide pool of gamblers could make the most unexpected results.

that is true, it is called the bookmaker tool, just so you know all the odds are related to one company that is controlling it and this company picks odds according to inside information inside every single team in the world , i am not saying Lazio did profit from the bookies or sold this match not at all what i am implying is crotone asked for have my back today i will have yours tomorrow and this information was known for bookmakers.
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Lotito Vattene.

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Re: Serie A: Crotone-Lazio, Sunday, 28-05-17
« Reply #113 on: May 31, 2017, 04:11:06 PM »

No point in fixing this game simply because Empoli had to lose against Palermo in order for Crotone to stay up. But the way our players performed is very shady. Maybe Crotone proposed a "win for a win" to us which would benefit Lazio as we had nothing to fight for ( even though I am pissed about not fighting for the 4th spot ) and then Crotone could give us 3 points in the future to make up for this game. But this is all very serious and if Lotito would do something like it I would want for him to go to jail. No excuse for match fixing. I believe that Crotone players just wanted the win and against our pathetic team it was never a question of who will take 3 points in that game.

Some members here saying that the players should not give their all because there was nothing to play for? Because they could have gotten injured? Get a grip guys. Why do you even care about them getting injured? F*ck them, they get paid millions to play for Lazio. If this game was so insignificant then Inzaghi should have fielded the Primavera. Losing to shitty Crotone when you need the win to get the 4th spot is an absolute bullshit.

On the good side, we could see how unreliable Wallace and Bastos are. I do not know what kind of deal Tare has with Mendes but if he keeps buying imbeciles like Wallace, Bastos and Hoedt we will never become a serious club. Wallace cannot make a normal pass, unbelievable! Bastos getting sent off ( not fair but still ) because of two yellow cards against Crotone in less than 45 minutes? Sell him please.

The player I want to see leave the most is Hoedt, anything more than 2 millions is a great deal for him. Other than passing abilities he has nothing. And he and Wallace are the perfect disaster couple, the first one cannot play defense without making huge mistakes and the other one cannot pass the ball to a teammate who is more than 10 meters away from him. Who brings these guys to Lazio? Who brings shit players in our club to play in the most challenging league defense-wise?
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Caput Mundi

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Re: Serie A: Crotone-Lazio, Sunday, 28-05-17
« Reply #114 on: June 01, 2017, 10:03:34 AM »

This debate is strange because "il sistema" has been going on in Italian football for so long, it has a name.

The strangest thing about the weekend wasn't Lazio's loss, it was Palermo beating Empoli.

I was expecting 'il sistema' to turn up a very different result, which is why I'm entering a debate. I would've thought those quick to jump on the faintest whiff of corruption would've said pre-game that Empoli would survive. Maybe, just maybe, what we saw at the weekend was genuine for a change. I agree if you were suggesting that the Palermo - Empoli game is the one that might look dodgy.

I think I remember you saying a few years ago when Crotone and Latina were contending for promotion to A that they'd never be allowed to get up because they are minnows. And sure enough, they didn't. But we've seen nothing but minnows succeed since.

Am I a fool for thinking that if the league was corrupt, Crotone wouldn't have survived? I just don't see any motive to allow them to stay up over Empoli, or for that matter, why Empoli would want to go down.

Well il sistema has never been about outright corruption (maybe in the most extreme cases but I can't think of one off the top of my head).

To me, it falls into the same category as teams easing off when they're a few goals up instead of pushing for a 10-goal victory. Remember a few years ago the outrage in Sicily when Inter smashed Catania, I think 7-0?

I don't see it as corruption per se, although it's certainly not in the spirit of what we in the Anglo Celtic world would call true sporting values. But the Italians and Latin countries have their own set of sports values and condemning a team to relegation when you have nothing to play for yourself has almost always been an unwritten sin in Italy.

Side note: I hate betting but a few mates of mine are big on it, as is most of the country down here. In the 2000s, a lot of people I know who followed Italian football saw the last round as a cash cow because the betting companies never knew better than to make relegation-battling Reggina pay $9 to beat a Milan in clear fourth, for instance. I'm told they woke up to how things worked eventually.
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La Lazio la nostra. Guai a chi la tocca.

Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Crotone-Lazio, Sunday, 28-05-17
« Reply #115 on: June 01, 2017, 10:13:54 AM »

Well il sistema has never been about outright corruption (maybe in the most extreme cases but I can't think of one off the top of my head).

To me, it falls into the same category as teams easing off when they're a few goals up instead of pushing for a 10-goal victory. Remember a few years ago the outrage in Sicily when Inter smashed Catania, I think 7-0?

I don't see it as corruption per se, although it's certainly not in the spirit of what we in the Anglo Celtic world would call true sporting values. But the Italians and Latin countries have their own set of sports values and condemning a team to relegation when you have nothing to play for yourself has almost always been an unwritten sin in Italy.

Side note: I hate betting but a few mates of mine are big on it, as is most of the country down here. In the 2000s, a lot of people I know who followed Italian football saw the last round as a cash cow because the betting companies never knew better than to make relegation-battling Reggina pay $9 to beat a Milan in clear fourth, for instance. I'm told they woke up to how things worked eventually.

I agree with you. In days gone by, Lazio and Palermo would've both rolled over last weekend, Lazio would never have gone out and put 6 past Palermo or 7 past Sampdoria and sides like Carpi and Frosinone would've been thwarted in their attempts to get into Serie A. You also always saw teams that were almost safe draw when they faced each other in the latter stages of the season. I know that's how it works in Italy.

So I do agree that il sistema exists, but I don't think this particular Crotone - Lazio game looks anything out of the ordinary - I was 99% certain we'd lose this game. I don't think the FIGC wanted Crotone to stay up. I don't think Empoli wanted to be relegated. I don't think the bookmakers' odds were suspicious.

I think the surprise is that Palermo actually went out to beat Empoli. And I think that's it.
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Caput Mundi

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Re: Serie A: Crotone-Lazio, Sunday, 28-05-17
« Reply #116 on: June 01, 2017, 10:32:53 AM »

Agree completely. Who knows if there was anything more to that.

Perhaps pressure on the Palermo players to give a furious fanbase something to go out on just outweighed the usual convention.
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