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Author Topic: Lineup & Tactical after the summermercato : open for discussion ....  (Read 3285 times)

Cathal

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Re: Lineup & Tactical after the summermercato : open for discussion ....
« Reply #80 on: October 26, 2017, 09:16:11 AM »

Yes, but what 3 or 5 man defense line formation does not utilize the wingers in attack.  If you don't you hardly can attack in a decent fashion.  I can agree our wingbacks are much more attacking then defensive but be that as it may without the ball it's a 5 man backline more or less.

It's a 5-man backline when we are not in possession of the football and we have time to organise ourselves, but if the ball is not in play and Strakosha is about to take the goal kick, you are rarely if at all going to see Marusic in line with Bastos, for example.

That's why I disagree with you saying we have 7 defensive-minded players, because really we have the three centre-backs, Leiva and Parolo (who is also quite happily to push forward when appropriate) with the wing-backs only becoming 'defensive' when the whole team enters a defensive phase. At that point, you could argue SMS, Luis Alberto and Immobile are 'defensive-minded'.

What separates Inzaghi's 3-5-2 from other 3-5-2s or 3-5-2 variants is that the 'regista' has an abundance of defensive duties which essentially makes him more than a 'regista', more of a jack-of-all-trades. It's why it became clear to me very quickly that Biglia could be easily replaced and why I saw Leiva as very ideal for the role - Biglia had a very limited skill-set while Leiva has a bit of everything in his game, although is evidently not as rounded in some areas as his predecessor.

And 'regista' implies that the build-up play revolves around that particular player, but in our case, we can use the wing-backs to initiate attacks, or long balls to the head of SMS or have Luis Alberto drop deep to form a brief double pivot with Lucas, or even have de Vrij do his best Bonucci impression.

My point is, our personnel gives us a plethora of options to make slight adjustments to the 3-5-2 while also maintaining the right balance. Take Parolo out of the team and I think we probably lose much of what we have going for us, even if Parolo himself is far from the player he was a few years ago.
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Giolazio

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Re: Lineup & Tactical after the summermercato : open for discussion ....
« Reply #81 on: October 26, 2017, 11:14:35 AM »

You know, part of me is excited for Anderson's return, naturally. The other part of me is thinking is Immobile scoring more than ever because he is the sole focus of our attacks?

It's no secret at times Keita and Anderson would try a dribble or a ridiculous shot rather than make a simple pass. I hope this doesn't happen. At least Anderson was less selfish than Keita. I don't mind who scores the goals, just as long as they keep coming.
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Evesto

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Re: Lineup & Tactical after the summermercato : open for discussion ....
« Reply #82 on: October 26, 2017, 04:38:48 PM »

Yes, but what 3 or 5 man defense line formation does not utilize the wingers in attack.  If you don't you hardly can attack in a decent fashion.  I can agree our wingbacks are much more attacking then defensive but be that as it may without the ball it's a 5 man backline more or less.

It's a 5-man backline when we are not in possession of the football and we have time to organise ourselves, but if the ball is not in play and Strakosha is about to take the goal kick, you are rarely if at all going to see Marusic in line with Bastos, for example.

That's why I disagree with you saying we have 7 defensive-minded players, because really we have the three centre-backs, Leiva and Parolo (who is also quite happily to push forward when appropriate) with the wing-backs only becoming 'defensive' when the whole team enters a defensive phase. At that point, you could argue SMS, Luis Alberto and Immobile are 'defensive-minded'.

What separates Inzaghi's 3-5-2 from other 3-5-2s or 3-5-2 variants is that the 'regista' has an abundance of defensive duties which essentially makes him more than a 'regista', more of a jack-of-all-trades. It's why it became clear to me very quickly that Biglia could be easily replaced and why I saw Leiva as very ideal for the role - Biglia had a very limited skill-set while Leiva has a bit of everything in his game, although is evidently not as rounded in some areas as his predecessor.

And 'regista' implies that the build-up play revolves around that particular player, but in our case, we can use the wing-backs to initiate attacks, or long balls to the head of SMS or have Luis Alberto drop deep to form a brief double pivot with Lucas, or even have de Vrij do his best Bonucci impression.

My point is, our personnel gives us a plethora of options to make slight adjustments to the 3-5-2 while also maintaining the right balance. Take Parolo out of the team and I think we probably lose much of what we have going for us, even if Parolo himself is far from the player he was a few years ago.

I follow your argument about the backline and i mostly agree, since i pointed the more attacking nature out myself.  But i think the biggest reason why the right or the left side go very high up during games is because Ciro is alone up front otherwise, it's simply necessary.  With Felipe in a free role up front he would either be going left or right te create space and stretch the opponent and avoiding the need to get the wingback high up so very often.

But i understand that Parolo is doing much work on his position that hasn't been rely tried with Alberto.  Then again we see Alberto do a lot of similar work on the field.  Curious how it will evolve eventually with a full roster available.
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Cathal

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Re: Lineup & Tactical after the summermercato : open for discussion ....
« Reply #83 on: October 26, 2017, 05:39:48 PM »

But i think the biggest reason why the right or the left side go very high up during games is because Ciro is alone up front otherwise, it's simply necessary.  With Felipe in a free role up front he would either be going left or right te create space and stretch the opponent and avoiding the need to get the wingback high up so very often.

I think it's more straight-forward than that.

Pretty much every system in football aims to have five players involved in the attack. Under Pioli, it would've been the striker, the two wingers and the two central midfield players that weren't named Biglia  :razz:

There's no wingers in our system now, but the wing-backs effectively do the same job. As they are not as offensive as actual wingers, the central midfield tandem (SMS and Luis Alberto) can be that bit more offensive than Parolo and Cataldi would've been under Pioli, for example.

You can freeze the picture at any point in a Lazio game and you'll tend to notice five players are on the offensive and there's another who either has the ball or is dropping into an area where they can get on the ball and this player doubles up as the first defender in line when possession was lost. With Pioli, that player was almost always Biglia, with Inzaghi, it could be Lulic, Parolo, Marusic, Luis Alberto etc.

I'm not really disagreeing with you much here Evesto, just want to point out that I think Inzaghi probably thinks of our wing-backs more as deep-lying wingers than full-backs.
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Evesto

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Re: Lineup & Tactical after the summermercato : open for discussion ....
« Reply #84 on: October 27, 2017, 01:38:41 AM »

But i think the biggest reason why the right or the left side go very high up during games is because Ciro is alone up front otherwise, it's simply necessary.  With Felipe in a free role up front he would either be going left or right te create space and stretch the opponent and avoiding the need to get the wingback high up so very often.

I think it's more straight-forward than that.

Pretty much every system in football aims to have five players involved in the attack. Under Pioli, it would've been the striker, the two wingers and the two central midfield players that weren't named Biglia  :razz:

There's no wingers in our system now, but the wing-backs effectively do the same job. As they are not as offensive as actual wingers, the central midfield tandem (SMS and Luis Alberto) can be that bit more offensive than Parolo and Cataldi would've been under Pioli, for example.

You can freeze the picture at any point in a Lazio game and you'll tend to notice five players are on the offensive and there's another who either has the ball or is dropping into an area where they can get on the ball and this player doubles up as the first defender in line when possession was lost. With Pioli, that player was almost always Biglia, with Inzaghi, it could be Lulic, Parolo, Marusic, Luis Alberto etc.

I'm not really disagreeing with you much here Evesto, just want to point out that I think Inzaghi probably thinks of our wing-backs more as deep-lying wingers than full-backs.

Not disagreeing with that either, that's definitly what we've been seeing.
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phantomm1976

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Re: Lineup & Tactical after the summermercato : open for discussion ....
« Reply #85 on: November 02, 2017, 12:02:40 PM »

 This 352 is more lethal than Pioli 433(for example).
 There's no static players, all of them are active through the action and R(L) backs are almost the wingers. Especially the left side when Radu took the ball in left and Senad are deep in opponent part of field.
 DV-Leiva are there to took that "first ball" and the others are free to found themselves in free positions.
 Its work until now  :offlag:
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Evesto

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Re: Lineup & Tactical after the summermercato : open for discussion ....
« Reply #86 on: November 20, 2017, 01:16:28 AM »

Once Nani is 100% fit i won't be surprised to see a little change with a 3412 or 3421.
Our midfield isn't heavily stocked but up front when all fit the luxuary will be huge.

Central midfield depends on 3 players so bringing some rest to 1 at a time at some points would be smart as the season is very long.  Unless a CM arrives in january a 2 man central midfield might be the choice.
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