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Author Topic: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017  (Read 1320 times)

Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2017, 11:50:30 AM »

Corriere dello Sport claiming Inzaghi is seriously thinking about a formation change to get Anderson into the team, perhaps influenced by our form and our defensive struggles.

Be interesting to follow training. If he hasn't thought about 4-2-3-1 in light of everything (Anderson's return, de Vrij potentially signing for another club etc.) then he hasn't thought much at all. Would be a huge risk, but with Crotone and the Coppa before Inter, SPAL and the winter break, this sort of seems like the right time to experiment.
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Giosselino

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Re: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2017, 12:23:05 PM »

I would settle for a 1-0 or 2-1 victory. I remember the final game of the previous season and the way Crotone won against us (3-1).
A win for Lazio while Rubentus manage to trash Merda would help us having a very fine Christmas Eve  :beer:
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"Essere laziale θ qualcosa di speciale, diverso dalla massa. E stato l'instinto a spingermi verso i colori biancocelesti e la passione per l'aquila, un animale affascinante, regale, fiero."

blue-white

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Re: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2017, 12:54:12 PM »

Corriere dello Sport claiming Inzaghi is seriously thinking about a formation change to get Anderson into the team, perhaps influenced by our form and our defensive struggles.

Be interesting to follow training. If he hasn't thought about 4-2-3-1 in light of everything (Anderson's return, de Vrij potentially signing for another club etc.) then he hasn't thought much at all. Would be a huge risk, but with Crotone and the Coppa before Inter, SPAL and the winter break, this sort of seems like the right time to experiment.

interesting. I don't think that this can be a permanent solution, but as you said - with Crotone and Coppa game, Inzaghi could test it.
Bastos with his blackouts, Wallace not much confidence too - a 4 men defense doesn't look bad. Problem i have, is that the players are not in the rhythm of another formation and - we change our style in midfield and attack - something which is working for us in the last months.

How would look a first 11 with a 4-2-3-1 (what i generelly prefered before the preseason started...):
I would go with:

Strakosha

Basta - De Vrij - Radu - Lulic

Parolo - Leiva

Anderson - SMS - Alberto

Immobile

What i don't like is, that we maybe will be more open because SMS playing more forward. In this formation, Parolo is only there to support Leiva and not our attack!!!

Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2017, 02:06:42 PM »

LLSN claim Inzaghi is thinking of a 4-3-2-1, but is likely to wait until the winter break to test it. Think it's obvious how a 4-3-2-1 would look.
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Evesto

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Re: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2017, 02:41:48 PM »

I can not understund you guys... why most of you are so pessimist...  :um_face:
not pessimist - just realist. A game vs. an opponent who tries to defend for 95 minutes, is not an easy opponent for us. If the team is thinking like some here, and say before the game that they will crash them 4:0, they will have to awake again, because they will get massive problems if you go with that style into a game.
Look at last weekend at the game of 1927...goal in the 94. minute for a 1:0 against Cagliari....

Never the less - i also think that we will beat them and we really have to, but the team and fans need to stay focused, and keep the feet on the ground.

We could say Crotono has the luxuary to come and park the bus to take a point.  This is true but since they are only 1 point away from the relegation zone they are obligated to aim for that counter.  So my tought would be to not rush it, be patient, build up the game like we did on the 3rd goal in Bergamo.  They were protecting the lead then but with pure skill we got a worldclass goal.  A narrow win against that type of outfit isn't bad at all. 
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Evesto

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Re: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2017, 02:50:36 PM »

LLSN claim Inzaghi is thinking of a 4-3-2-1, but is likely to wait until the winter break to test it. Think it's obvious how a 4-3-2-1 would look.

Knowing Inzaghi that would be another hybrid formation like his 3511/352/3421.
That 4321 would result in a 433/4312/4321, could be interesting, but all those would limit Sergej a little more then now i believe.  Only a narrow 4231 or 433 with the point foward would really accomodate all our attacking assests.

But i wouldn't expect it before the break either, would be a little reckless, especially with our defence.
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Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2017, 03:06:43 PM »

LLSN claim Inzaghi is thinking of a 4-3-2-1, but is likely to wait until the winter break to test it. Think it's obvious how a 4-3-2-1 would look.

Knowing Inzaghi that would be another hybrid formation like his 3511/352/3421.
That 4321 would result in a 433/4312/4321, could be interesting, but all those would limit Sergej a little more then now i believe.  Only a narrow 4231 or 433 with the point foward would really accomodate all our attacking assests.

Inzaghi seems very reluctant to move away from a 3-man midfield and that tells me he likes to defend by forcing the opposition to play into vertical channels (between wing-backs and centre-backs). I think he knows as well as the rest of us that conceding space between Bastos and Marusic is costing us points.

Moving to 4-3-2-1 allows us to have different players contend with the space (Parolo and Basta/Marusic on the right, SMS and Lulic/Lukaku on the left). That would force SMS to defend in a role more in line with that which he had last year. It would also force Leiva to do more defensive work and would free de Vrij of some duties.

Now, I don't know why you'd want your best centre-back to do less work, which raises the question: is this because de Vrij might be gone come the winter break? The media are suggesting it's as simple as he signs with us or with someone else for 2018-19, but he can also be sold for good money in the next couple of weeks and Tare forcing him to decide by Christmas might suggest we've options on the table.

The change in tactics might be because of changes in personnel. And I suppose you could also ask that if we're considering moving to a system that removes SMS' role, maybe it's because we are thinking post-SMS also.
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Evesto

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Re: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2017, 03:24:17 PM »

LLSN claim Inzaghi is thinking of a 4-3-2-1, but is likely to wait until the winter break to test it. Think it's obvious how a 4-3-2-1 would look.

Knowing Inzaghi that would be another hybrid formation like his 3511/352/3421.
That 4321 would result in a 433/4312/4321, could be interesting, but all those would limit Sergej a little more then now i believe.  Only a narrow 4231 or 433 with the point foward would really accomodate all our attacking assests.

Inzaghi seems very reluctant to move away from a 3-man midfield and that tells me he likes to defend by forcing the opposition to play into vertical channels (between wing-backs and centre-backs). I think he knows as well as the rest of us that conceding space between Bastos and Marusic is costing us points.

Moving to 4-3-2-1 allows us to have different players contend with the space (Parolo and Basta/Marusic on the right, SMS and Lulic/Lukaku on the left). That would force SMS to defend in a role more in line with that which he had last year. It would also force Leiva to do more defensive work and would free de Vrij of some duties.

Now, I don't know why you'd want your best centre-back to do less work, which raises the question: is this because de Vrij might be gone come the winter break? The media are suggesting it's as simple as he signs with us or with someone else for 2018-19, but he can also be sold for good money in the next couple of weeks and Tare forcing him to decide by Christmas might suggest we've options on the table.

The change in tactics might be because of changes in personnel. And I suppose you could also ask that if we're considering moving to a system that removes SMS' role, maybe it's because we are thinking post-SMS also.

Good post, like it.  Currently in the 3511 Parolo pushes high and that indeed leaves gaps and also takes away one of his best aspects, recovering balls.  The way he plays for the team now doesn't really require a Parolo, it requires a box to box that can keep putting pressure and delivering runs.  Parolo is this player to, but is actually much more.
Because of this the right defender is indeed more dependable on Marusic then Parolo, a 43* system would change that.

This alone could be the reason but logically the De Vrij situation has to take part.  Plenty of vague rumours around of Tare even looking beyond Caceres for another defender.  Gόnter, Paletta, Gomez ... all being mentioned.

He could be looking past Sergej already also but that i doubt more.  We have lots of games and a versatile 4321 would create the chance of switching Alberto ad Sergej up front without problems, and also Sergej on LCM with someone else (Murgia, Lulic, new player .. ?)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 03:25:55 PM by Evesto »
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blue-white

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Re: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2017, 03:43:30 PM »

I don't think that Inzaghi knows well about the space between Bastos and Marusic.
It can't be that he "knows" this well as a problem. In my opinion he let them play like that because he wants to.
Since Marusic is playing, Parolo has a much more defensive role, with only some "break outs" in moving forward.
Marusic is acting like the right attacker in a 3-4-3. He is very often much more upfront than Parolo or SMS or Lulic or even Alberto.
Because of that i often said - that exactly this job can FA do in a brilliant way.

I would not underestimate the working rate of Marusic because he is doing his defensive job too, but the whole right combo with Bastos and Marusic is when we speak about quality, not a real good one.
Especially when we talk about a tougher opponent on Marusic's side, he gets too easy under pressure and can't put pressure on the opponent.

This is the point i'm back now at Inzaghi. In my opinion he knows this situation because he wants to have this situation. He wants to have Marusic higher to pressure the opponent, to keep down the pressure on Bastos.
I know it sounds a bit weird, but i don't know how to explain it better. It's no problem for Inzaghi, i thin he wants to play like this.
Marusic is a power horse which runs a lot, and Inzaghi is hoping that this is working, but football is not always running and working. You need on this position also someone who has the brain for being dangerous - especially when you play so often upfront like Mauric does.

Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Lazio – Crotone, Saturday, 23-12-2017
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2017, 03:56:44 PM »

Currently in the 3511 Parolo pushes high and that indeed leaves gaps and also takes away one of his best aspects, recovering balls.  The way he plays for the team now doesn't really require a Parolo, it requires a box to box that can keep putting pressure and delivering runs. 

Just to comment on this. I'm sure the idea is that Parolo arrives late into the box to be a goal threat and this is important. Parolo is actually more of a threat to score than SMS because of the late runs he makes and because he's arriving late on occasion, he also provides an extra layer of defensive cover.

I don't think that Inzaghi knows well about the space between Bastos and Marusic.
It can't be that he "knows" this well as a problem. In my opinion he let them play like that because he wants to.

Oh, I agree Inzaghi wants to play this way. But with Anderson back, and Bastos proving to be less and less reliable, the 4-3-2-1 might enable us to play this way with different players and not have a 'problem'.

Let me explain. By playing Basta (or Patric/Caceres) and having them slot in at centre-back when we attack, we can replicate what we've been doing going forward by pushing the other wing-back forward (Lulic, for example).

Essentially, you'd replace Bastos and Marusic by having Basta (or Patric/Caceres) slot into Bastos' position when the team attacks and have Anderson high up the pitch with the instruction to track back rather than Marusic deep in the field with the instruction to go forward.

So you could potentially change formation from 3-5-1-1 to 4-3-2-1 and keep almost the exact same style of play in both attack and defence AND get Bastos and Marusic off the pitch.

The question is, can we get the players into the 'end' positions Inzaghi desires from different 'start' positions? That's why it would need to be tested.

If Inzaghi wants to go to a flat back four, or a back four where BOTH wing-backs push forward, everything about the way this team plays has to change. That's something you want to do in pre-season, not the winter break. But like I said, if we lose key players, that might be the best option.
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