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Author Topic: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017  (Read 2317 times)

Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2018, 05:29:00 PM »

No, it should be Wallace > Patric > Bastos > Luiz Felipe.

On that, I think Inzaghi is going to consider turning Patric into the Radu of the opposite side. He might leave that to the summer, but reading between the lines, I think Patric has impressed Inzaghi in that role and I think everyone realises, with some hours in the gym, Patric could be better in that role.
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Evesto

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2018, 05:54:29 PM »

No, it should be Wallace > Patric > Bastos > Luiz Felipe.

On that, I think Inzaghi is going to consider turning Patric into the Radu of the opposite side. He might leave that to the summer, but reading between the lines, I think Patric has impressed Inzaghi in that role and I think everyone realises, with some hours in the gym, Patric could be better in that role.

That good be interesting.  Buff up like Radu did last summer, a little more prep.
Certainly worth the chance.
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ilsemprelaziale

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2018, 05:59:22 PM »

This should probably be posted in the other thread, but since we're discussing CBs here I will make the post here.

Wallace was at fault for both goals yesterday, not just the second. The penalty call was a copy of the penalty that was awarded to Viola when we drew 1-1 against them. I think it's a harsh penalty, but Wallace arrives too late and ends up kicking upwards into the foot of the SPAL player, he doesn't connect with the ball before the SPAL player does.

When I look at the situation where Wallace intervenes and commits the penalty, the first thing I ask myself is..did he really need to do that? The SPAL player had his back towards the goal and it was not such a dangerous situation that he needed to go in like that.

SPAL - Lazio 2-5 - Highlights - Giornata 20 - Serie A TIM 2017/18


Anyway for me it's very simple, both Wallace and Bastos aren't good enough. My trust in Luiz Felipe might naive, but with the former two I've seen enough indications that they aren't learning from their mistakes. Sure we can keep using them every so often and then be fine with the errors that they keep making, but our CBS is what separates us from Juventus and Napoli this season..
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Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?

Insanity is doing the exact...same thing over and over again expecting shit to change.. That Is Crazy

Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2018, 06:20:29 PM »

Wallace was at fault for both goals yesterday, not just the second. The penalty call was a copy of the penalty that was awarded to Viola when we drew 1-1 against them. I think it's a harsh penalty, but Wallace arrives too late and ends up kicking upwards into the foot of the SPAL player, he doesn't connect with the ball before the SPAL player does.

When I look at the situation where Wallace intervenes and commits the penalty, the first thing I ask myself is..did he really need to do that? The SPAL player had his back towards the goal and it was not such a dangerous situation that he needed to go in like that.

See, this infuriates me. When Caicedo made this 'error' against Fiorentina, I was pretty much the only person that said Caicedo could've been smarter. To my memory, everyone else excused him. But when it's Wallace, it's an error? This is much, much more explicable than Caicedo. Typical action here is to try and clear the danger.

But no, Wallace didn't have to clear it and yes, he probably made contact and yes, Wallace could've done much better with his headed clearance which led to the second goal.

But looking at these incidents in isolation, Basta didn't have to wrestle the first SPAL player to the ground and - I think - handle the ball. And I actually think that Basta incident influenced Tagliavento to give the penalty on Wallace, because Tagliavento felt the need to point out which incident he was giving the penalty for and then seemed to suggest he could've given a penalty on Basta. I think if you're going to argue Wallace did something stupid, only fair to say what Basta was doing wasn't clever either.

As for the second goal, de Vrij could've done Wallace a favour and blocked Anteneucci's shot. No? You could blame him, if you want to. If de Vrij makes that header and Wallace lets the shot go through him, I know Wallace cops half the blame at least. Wouldn't be right, but it'd happen.

In any case, it comes down to this for me and also for our manager I feel - there's a difference between Wallace having the right idea but the wrong execution and a player like Bastos never having the right idea.  Wallace ****s up both clearances, but you'd be lucky if Bastos would even be in those positions, and if he was, he'd probably **** it up too. For me, Inzaghi gets that. Clearly, this forum disagrees.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 06:26:19 PM by Cathal »
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Evesto

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2018, 07:50:03 PM »

To me Wallace made thesame action Caicedo did against Viola.  Wanting to clear, a little clumsy but certainly (for me) again no error.  The only thing close to an error was Basta knudging that player in the back.  But also very light to point to the spot.

I'd also only get rid of one defender also if possible.  Everyone deserves a chance but Bastos' list keeps getting longer. 
I can't see a future. 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 07:54:51 PM by Evesto »
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Boksic

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2018, 07:54:44 PM »

Wallace was at fault for both goals yesterday, not just the second. The penalty call was a copy of the penalty that was awarded to Viola when we drew 1-1 against them. I think it's a harsh penalty, but Wallace arrives too late and ends up kicking upwards into the foot of the SPAL player, he doesn't connect with the ball before the SPAL player does.

When I look at the situation where Wallace intervenes and commits the penalty, the first thing I ask myself is..did he really need to do that? The SPAL player had his back towards the goal and it was not such a dangerous situation that he needed to go in like that.

See, this infuriates me. When Caicedo made this 'error' against Fiorentina, I was pretty much the only person that said Caicedo could've been smarter. To my memory, everyone else excused him. But when it's Wallace, it's an error? This is much, much more explicable than Caicedo. Typical action here is to try and clear the danger.

But no, Wallace didn't have to clear it and yes, he probably made contact and yes, Wallace could've done much better with his headed clearance which led to the second goal.

But looking at these incidents in isolation, Basta didn't have to wrestle the first SPAL player to the ground and - I think - handle the ball. And I actually think that Basta incident influenced Tagliavento to give the penalty on Wallace, because Tagliavento felt the need to point out which incident he was giving the penalty for and then seemed to suggest he could've given a penalty on Basta. I think if you're going to argue Wallace did something stupid, only fair to say what Basta was doing wasn't clever either.

As for the second goal, de Vrij could've done Wallace a favour and blocked Anteneucci's shot. No? You could blame him, if you want to. If de Vrij makes that header and Wallace lets the shot go through him, I know Wallace cops half the blame at least. Wouldn't be right, but it'd happen.

In any case, it comes down to this for me and also for our manager I feel - there's a difference between Wallace having the right idea but the wrong execution and a player like Bastos never having the right idea.  Wallace ****s up both clearances, but you'd be lucky if Bastos would even be in those positions, and if he was, he'd probably **** it up too. For me, Inzaghi gets that. Clearly, this forum disagrees.

My opinion is that it's way beyond finding excuses for both Wallace and Bastos, comparing them is useless as I think everyone beleives that none of them should feature in our first 11. We have a mature squad, most of them in their prime years. We cannot screw this up by having 2 defenders who will have a brain fart every now and then. We need to offload at least on of them perhaps Wallace can go out on loan or Bastos permanently. Investing in the position should be easily justifiable considering that it will most likely give us Champions League football next season and we can use Hoedt's transfer money to find an adequate replacement.
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Evesto

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2018, 07:59:24 PM »

Again why Wallace?  I can only recall 2 errors. Radu made errors before.  Even De Vrij has made errors in his time here, should we get rid of him today?
Bastos' errors are getting uncountable in a very short period of time, only obvious thing for me.
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Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2018, 08:08:14 PM »

My opinion is that it's way beyond finding excuses for both Wallace and Bastos, comparing them is useless as I think everyone beleives that none of them should feature in our first 11. We have a mature squad, most of them in their prime years. We cannot screw this up by having 2 defenders who will have a brain fart every now and then. We need to offload at least on of them perhaps Wallace can go out on loan or Bastos permanently. Investing in the position should be easily justifiable considering that it will most likely give us Champions League football next season and we can use Hoedt's transfer money to find an adequate replacement.

This is utopian.

If the season ended today, we're in the Champions League. If we offload one of Wallace and Bastos, we've one less defender.

The defender we appear to be signing has barely played in two years owing to getting himself intoxicated, crashing into a bus stop and virtually getting the sack. He's now playing for a team en route to Serie B.

We need to do this, that and the other - I get it - but we can't. I'd love for Wallace and Bastos to be on the bench and I'd be perfectly fine with one or both moving on under the right circumstances.

But this isn't the right time. Firstly, it's mid-season and we're on course for CL - not the ideal time to make changes at the back. Secondly, de Vrij moving on at the end of the season is something we have to factor into the equation. And finally, as I said above, the level of player we can attract is a former Juventus back-up whose career was in freefall until we found him a solution.

We could also do with a better striker than Caicedo as vice-Immobile, a midfielder such as Cristante etc. But you can't go out and spend more than your means to try and get into CL. The time to commit to the cause was in July, not January.

This is off-topic, but while I'm on the subject - if de Vrij renews and Caceres actually arrives, I think Bastos could leave in this window. I don't think Wallace will leave because I think our manager has so much more faith in him than the average member of this forum.
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Evesto

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2018, 08:23:19 PM »

This is off-topic, but while I'm on the subject - if de Vrij renews and Caceres actually arrives, I think Bastos could leave in this window. I don't think Wallace will leave because I think our manager has so much more faith in him than the average member of this forum.

I hope Inzaghi has faith in Wallace, because if DV leaves this summer (most likely) we'd have to find 2 replacements.
And i still see Wallace as an option to eventually get used to DV's role.  It is his natural position.

But i wouldn't let Bastos go now with all those games yet to be played.  All of Caceres, De Vrij and Radu have had injury issues.  It's a big risk to suddenly get a shortage in defenders.  There's to much at stake.  The quality we have now depends on reaching the CL.
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Boksic

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2018, 08:43:04 PM »

My opinion is that it's way beyond finding excuses for both Wallace and Bastos, comparing them is useless as I think everyone beleives that none of them should feature in our first 11. We have a mature squad, most of them in their prime years. We cannot screw this up by having 2 defenders who will have a brain fart every now and then. We need to offload at least on of them perhaps Wallace can go out on loan or Bastos permanently. Investing in the position should be easily justifiable considering that it will most likely give us Champions League football next season and we can use Hoedt's transfer money to find an adequate replacement.

This is utopian.

If the season ended today, we're in the Champions League. If we offload one of Wallace and Bastos, we've one less defender.

The defender we appear to be signing has barely played in two years owing to getting himself intoxicated, crashing into a bus stop and virtually getting the sack. He's now playing for a team en route to Serie B.

We need to do this, that and the other - I get it - but we can't. I'd love for Wallace and Bastos to be on the bench and I'd be perfectly fine with one or both moving on under the right circumstances.

But this isn't the right time. Firstly, it's mid-season and we're on course for CL - not the ideal time to make changes at the back. Secondly, de Vrij moving on at the end of the season is something we have to factor into the equation. And finally, as I said above, the level of player we can attract is a former Juventus back-up whose career was in freefall until we found him a solution.

We could also do with a better striker than Caicedo as vice-Immobile, a midfielder such as Cristante etc. But you can't go out and spend more than your means to try and get into CL. The time to commit to the cause was in July, not January.

This is off-topic, but while I'm on the subject - if de Vrij renews and Caceres actually arrives, I think Bastos could leave in this window. I don't think Wallace will leave because I think our manager has so much more faith in him than the average member of this forum.

If we by some sort of miracle manage to get into the CL it's certainly not thanks to Wallace and Bastos. We have been dependant on 2-3 individuals and this is a team game we cannot have such weak points and expect to be successful.

I do beleive that signing Caceres is not what we need and it might be a mistake. I don't beleive that we need to break the bank to improve the defense. Signing someone like Acerbi who I'd beleive would make us stronger and is much less error prone compared to both Wallace and Bastos. Even Izzo would be an upgrade. Considering that both Sassoulo and Genoa are pretty much out of a Europa league spot and they will achieve safety no matter what considering the quality of the teams occupying relegetion spots, I see no reason why we cant get those kind of players.

I do beleive that Inzaghi trusts Wallace, I wouldnt sell him. I beleive it would benefit him if he's in a less pressured environment and is allowed to grow.
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