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Author Topic: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017  (Read 3217 times)

Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2018, 08:49:35 PM »

I don't beleive that we need to break the bank to improve the defense. Signing someone like Acerbi who I'd beleive would make us stronger and is much less error prone compared to both Wallace and Bastos. Even Izzo would be an upgrade. Considering that both Sassoulo and Genoa are pretty much out of a Europa league spot and they will achieve safety no matter what considering the quality of the teams occupying relegetion spots, I see no reason why we cant get those kind of players.

I see a very simple reason - they'll have better offers on the table. If I was neutral and I was Izzo's agent and Lazio come in, I tell him to turn the offer down.

It's the same with Caicedo in attack. We're not getting a better player than Caicedo to agree to come in and sit on our bench and hope Immobile gets hurt. No one at any level is accepting a 1 million per year salary to do that job.

That's our problem.
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Delta

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2018, 09:10:11 PM »

Haha all that debate and you missed that it was Basta who caused penalty not Wallace  :supsmile:
At least according to match report??

Actually now when watched it again few times, it does seem like Tagliavento reacts only after Wallace makes his attempt which is really strange... maybe there should be drug tests for referees before Lazio matches.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 09:17:31 PM by Delta »
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Evesto

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2018, 09:35:30 PM »

Haha all that debate and you missed that it was Basta who caused penalty not Wallace  :supsmile:
At least according to match report??

Actually now when watched it again few times, it does seem like Tagliavento reacts only after Wallace makes his attempt which is really strange... maybe there should be drug tests for referees before Lazio matches.

That's right, he reacts to Wallace.  He couldn't react to Basta himself unless a linesman saw it, Tagliatella had no sight on Basta who was completely behind his man imo. 

We could conclude both players were careless or one more then the other.  I think Basta was a little careless but a penalty is way to harsh.

I don't beleive that we need to break the bank to improve the defense. Signing someone like Acerbi who I'd beleive would make us stronger and is much less error prone compared to both Wallace and Bastos. Even Izzo would be an upgrade. Considering that both Sassoulo and Genoa are pretty much out of a Europa league spot and they will achieve safety no matter what considering the quality of the teams occupying relegetion spots, I see no reason why we cant get those kind of players.

I see a very simple reason - they'll have better offers on the table. If I was neutral and I was Izzo's agent and Lazio come in, I tell him to turn the offer down.

It's the same with Caicedo in attack. We're not getting a better player than Caicedo to agree to come in and sit on our bench and hope Immobile gets hurt. No one at any level is accepting a 1 million per year salary to do that job.

That's our problem.

But either one would jump at the chance to be a starter here.  That would have been the best option imo instead of getting Bastos out of Russia.  Caceres would accept the 1st backup role probably, with his past getting back in a team like this is huge.

Izzo, De Vrij, Radu backline.  Wallace and Caceres ready to step in.  Wallace for De Vrij, Caceres for the sides.
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stefano_40

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2018, 10:26:47 PM »

So yes, I do have such little to do with my Sunday night that I decided to have a look through every single one of our matches this season thus far. Decided to analyse the goals that we have conceded regarding Bastos and Wallace and came up with this list:

_______________________________ _______________________________ ______________________
Bastos:
Benevento - Week 11 - Could have done more to block the shot. Wouldn't entirely pin the blame on him.
Roma -  Week 13 - Reckless tackle, gave away a penalty.
Sampdoria -  Week 15 - Completely out of position
Atalanta - Week 17 - Reckless tackle, gave away a penalty.
Vitesse - (Euro Week 1) - Failed to track his man
Vitesse - (Euro Week 1) - Completely out of position

Wallace:
Zulte (Euro Week 6) - Hesitated to make a tackle, allowing his man to get a shot off.
SPAL - Week 20 - Penalty due to attempted clearance. This remains to be seen whether it was his fault.
SPAL - Week 20 - Poor clearance resulting in a shot.
_______________________________ _______________________________ ______________________

I know this is subjective to what I interpret the incidents to be, and another person may see certain incidents differently, but entirely from my point of view, Wallace has been pretty on par with Radu and De Vrij, who have both been at fault for a similar number of goals as him themselves eg Torino, Napoli, 1927. Bastos has been significantly worse than Wallace, DeVrij and Radu.

This may be down to the fact that Marusic on the right has not been convincing at all defensively, but I personally think that if you are at fault for three goals by being entirely out of position, and give away two penalties due to unnecessarily reckless challenges, that's a big Nope. The magnitude of his errors have been so much greater than those of any of our other defenders, and it just shows that he isn't really learning from them either. So, this leads me to the fact that I'm pretty happy for Wallace to continue in the team. He's a good player, generally pretty solid if unspectacular. But Bastos needs to play as few minutes as possible.

We need somebody solid in that RCB position. No reason why it can't be Wallace. Many reasons why it can't be Bastos. I would like a new "big name" CB to be a certainty to start in that position, but really is so unlikely to happen. If it is Caceres, which it likely will be, I personally think that Wallace still starts ahead of him, and Bastos drops down the order and is sold next season.

« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 10:29:37 PM by stefano_40 »
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71 min: Finally a goal in this game! It's a scrappy one, but Lazio won't care. Candreva goes down the right of the box and fires a shot at Lobont. He saves the shot put can only push it to Lulic on the other side, who stabs the ball home to give Lazio the lead!!

christ_JM

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2018, 11:52:20 PM »

My opinion is that it's way beyond finding excuses for both Wallace and Bastos, comparing them is useless as I think everyone beleives that none of them should feature in our first 11. We have a mature squad, most of them in their prime years. We cannot screw this up by having 2 defenders who will have a brain fart every now and then. We need to offload at least on of them perhaps Wallace can go out on loan or Bastos permanently. Investing in the position should be easily justifiable considering that it will most likely give us Champions League football next season and we can use Hoedt's transfer money to find an adequate replacement.

This is utopian.

If the season ended today, we're in the Champions League. If we offload one of Wallace and Bastos, we've one less defender.

The defender we appear to be signing has barely played in two years owing to getting himself intoxicated, crashing into a bus stop and virtually getting the sack. He's now playing for a team en route to Serie B.

We need to do this, that and the other - I get it - but we can't. I'd love for Wallace and Bastos to be on the bench and I'd be perfectly fine with one or both moving on under the right circumstances.

But this isn't the right time. Firstly, it's mid-season and we're on course for CL - not the ideal time to make changes at the back. Secondly, de Vrij moving on at the end of the season is something we have to factor into the equation. And finally, as I said above, the level of player we can attract is a former Juventus back-up whose career was in freefall until we found him a solution.

We could also do with a better striker than Caicedo as vice-Immobile, a midfielder such as Cristante etc. But you can't go out and spend more than your means to try and get into CL. The time to commit to the cause was in July, not January.

This is off-topic, but while I'm on the subject - if de Vrij renews and Caceres actually arrives, I think Bastos could leave in this window. I don't think Wallace will leave because I think our manager has so much more faith in him than the average member of this forum.

Yes you can. Inter, Milan and Roma do it every year.

And I know what you will say - their revenue - tv and transfers are much greater than Lazio.

I agree, but how much will Izzo or Acerbi cost. 10 - 15 m Euro?

The Wallace and Bastos mistakes have cost us 5-7 points imo. If Izzo or Acerbi can save us 3-4 points for the rest of the season we are sitting pretty in 3rd.

We made huge profits last window:

TRANSFER RESULTS
Earnings/expenditures   Arrivals/Departures   Transfer fee
Income   17   63.95m
Expenditures   27   25.65m
Total results   +38.30m

This means that a 10 - 15 m purchase is within our means.

Yes, a winter purchase is not the best time to buy because the prices are inflated but CL is important.
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christ_JM

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2018, 12:03:02 AM »

I don't beleive that we need to break the bank to improve the defense. Signing someone like Acerbi who I'd beleive would make us stronger and is much less error prone compared to both Wallace and Bastos. Even Izzo would be an upgrade. Considering that both Sassoulo and Genoa are pretty much out of a Europa league spot and they will achieve safety no matter what considering the quality of the teams occupying relegetion spots, I see no reason why we cant get those kind of players.

I see a very simple reason - they'll have better offers on the table. If I was neutral and I was Izzo's agent and Lazio come in, I tell him to turn the offer down.

It's the same with Caicedo in attack. We're not getting a better player than Caicedo to agree to come in and sit on our bench and hope Immobile gets hurt. No one at any level is accepting a 1 million per year salary to do that job.

That's our problem.

Izzo plays for a side that is 14th and he would turn down a move as a starter at Lazio who is 4th?

If I was a neutral I would be advising him to move to Lazio.
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Cathal

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2018, 12:19:03 AM »

I just disagree, guys. Star players for clubs like Genoa (Izzo) or Sassuolo (Acerbi) turn down Lazio and wait for the traditional powerhouses or perceived 'big' clubs. Don't take my word for it, look at Gabbiadini - he admitted rejecting Lazio because he didn't see it as enough of a step up on Sampdoria. Now I get that's just one player, but where's the star player at mid-table club that decided Lazio was a good next career move?

If I was Tare, I'd be keen on Izzo - perfect player for this Lazio - but I'm certain in my own mind Izzo ends ups at Juve, one of the Milan clubs or Napoli/1927. If he was to sign for Lazio, he would have to sign a 4-5 year deal and if he sign that, he doesn't get to move for at least 3 years and Lazio will do everything to make sure he ends up abroad.

This is what I perceive to be our reality, and why I predict come February, everyone is disappointed.

Regarding spending beyond our means, yes we can do it - Inter, Milan and 1927 have done it - and it's not working out well for them is it? I don't want to be in a position where we spend 15-20 million on a centre-back, miss CL, and have to sell Immobile or SMS in the summer.

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ilsemprelaziale

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2018, 12:35:34 AM »

Cathal do you really believe spending that money now in January will have that impact in the summer?

I'll admit the summer deals were a little confusing for me because we went with loan deals on Nani and the two Portuguese youngsters, but I don't think we spent big money. We qualified for Europe and things would have to fall apart now for us to not play in Europe for a 2 year in a row.

If anything, now feels like a time where we can afford to take risks. Sometimes you have to take risks to move forward, I would have thought more people were all in for that because they've seen this club take one step forward and two steps back many times due to lack of strength in the team. I'm not the only one who've felt that lotito had been overly passive. Two years in a row we lost a CL spot to lowly udinese while Lotito was refusing to do something in January both those years.

That being said, I'm going to play devils advocate now and say I don't really think we should go all in now in January. Not because I think our back line is strong, but because I know we will be forced to pay overprice and I also don't want to risk losing the harmony in the team.

I'm ok with caceres just joining in January, I get the logic behind that transfer. But if Our CBs keep this shitshow for the rest of the season then the club needs to take action in the summer. Throw them all out and start over in the defence. This is the second year that the same defenders makes the same mistakes. Imagine if that ends up costing us a spot in the champions league.
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Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?

Insanity is doing the exact...same thing over and over again expecting shit to change.. That Is Crazy

christ_JM

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2018, 04:48:34 AM »

I just disagree, guys. Star players for clubs like Genoa (Izzo) or Sassuolo (Acerbi) turn down Lazio and wait for the traditional powerhouses or perceived 'big' clubs. Don't take my word for it, look at Gabbiadini - he admitted rejecting Lazio because he didn't see it as enough of a step up on Sampdoria. Now I get that's just one player, but where's the star player at mid-table club that decided Lazio was a good next career move?

If I was Tare, I'd be keen on Izzo - perfect player for this Lazio - but I'm certain in my own mind Izzo ends ups at Juve, one of the Milan clubs or Napoli/1927. If he was to sign for Lazio, he would have to sign a 4-5 year deal and if he sign that, he doesn't get to move for at least 3 years and Lazio will do everything to make sure he ends up abroad.

This is what I perceive to be our reality, and why I predict come February, everyone is disappointed.

Regarding spending beyond our means, yes we can do it - Inter, Milan and 1927 have done it - and it's not working out well for them is it? I don't want to be in a position where we spend 15-20 million on a centre-back, miss CL, and have to sell Immobile or SMS in the summer.

It depends what motivates Izzo,

1. Money; or

2.

a)finals

b)titles

c)Champions League.

Juventus and Napoli can offer both 1 and 2.

If money motivates Izzo then I agree, he will wait for Inter, Milan or Merda.

If 2 motivates Izzo then I agree, he may choose Lazio.

Milan are far from a - c.

Merda and Lazio are qualified for final stages of Europe and Inter are struggling without Europe.

After Juventus and Napoli, Merda and Lazio are the best placed to land Izzo.

De Vrij signed for us because we could offer him first team football and because we showed early interest in him.

The same could potentially be said for Izzo or whomever.
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edo_shehb

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Re: Serie A: Lazio - Chievo, Sunday, 21-01-2017
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2018, 08:10:23 AM »

I just disagree, guys. Star players for clubs like Genoa (Izzo) or Sassuolo (Acerbi) turn down Lazio and wait for the traditional powerhouses or perceived 'big' clubs. Don't take my word for it, look at Gabbiadini - he admitted rejecting Lazio because he didn't see it as enough of a step up on Sampdoria. Now I get that's just one player, but where's the star player at mid-table club that decided Lazio was a good next career move?

If I was Tare, I'd be keen on Izzo - perfect player for this Lazio - but I'm certain in my own mind Izzo ends ups at Juve, one of the Milan clubs or Napoli/1927. If he was to sign for Lazio, he would have to sign a 4-5 year deal and if he sign that, he doesn't get to move for at least 3 years and Lazio will do everything to make sure he ends up abroad.

This is what I perceive to be our reality, and why I predict come February, everyone is disappointed.

Regarding spending beyond our means, yes we can do it - Inter, Milan and 1927 have done it - and it's not working out well for them is it? I don't want to be in a position where we spend 15-20 million on a centre-back, miss CL, and have to sell Immobile or SMS in the summer.

you must be hopeful first to be disappointed,

Any Laziale that still hopeful Lottio would do massive or at least meaningful transfer in January is naive ones

 :whistle:
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