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Author Topic: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club  (Read 1560 times)

drazvan

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Re: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2018, 11:23:35 AM »

No matter how they worded it the media would still have a field day.

I wouldn't feel comfortable, correction I'd feel scared if any woman or girl I knew, my sister or wife or daughter ended up in that part of the stands. I'd be as scared if I saw any girl I knew head to a mosh pit at a punk concert, which is how scary and dangerous the stands can get.

My point illustrated in a video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX1CPPlk1uI
fast forward to 20 sec.

It's dangerous, it's filled with adrenaline and testosterone, it's coming to the stadium at least half and hour early and leaving at least half an hour late (even later in away games), it's being there in the sun and the rain and the snow, yelling and chanting all the time.
I don't know of many women who find that concept appealing, and looking at photos from other support group curvas I don't see women anywhere, so yeah, it is common sense or if you will, an established practice.

I think you miss the point. We all agree about the dangerous, etc part. If they would have put a paper with "Attention, this area is for real supporters who "live" the game and do crazy stuff" - all would have been ok. But when you imply that some certain categories are not welcome based on race, skin color, gender, etc - that's when you are wrong and there is no way around it. Plus the reason they mention is not that it is dangerous, but that those categories (in this case women) cannot be "real" fans and cannot have the same level of pride as them. There is no way around it - it's just a group of idiots.

I know that this is not what 99% of the Lazio fans think or at least express, but that 1% of idiots destroys our image. Same as the monkey chants, same as the Anna Frank incidents. Media only needs stories and those idiots are making their job easy.
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Cathal

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Re: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2018, 11:52:16 AM »

The most innocent explanation is that they want those 10 rows reserved for themselves and they want it to be filled only with the most passionate of supporters. I personally don't see any justification whatsoever for that, but ok.

To believe that, you have to buy into the idea that those capable of coming up with wonderfully intelligent, emotionally-charged statements at opportune moments are incapable of explaining a simple point and accidentally suggested women are not welcome in the Curva when they actually meant women who do not fit their ideal of a Lazio fan and presumably the men who take these women on dates to the Curva Nord on a Sunday afternoon in the first place. You have to be sexist at best to make that oversight.

If they worded it along those lines, it might not be sexist, but yes it would still call into question whether or not this very small minority of individuals should have the power and influence to decide what goes on in the stadium. And the media could choose to run with that angle, even if it's less sexy.

But I just don't see how anyone can say they made a mistake and if they communicated how they actually felt, it would be ok. What the actually feel is still up  for debate with regard as to whether it's acceptable or not, but as I'm trying to point out, there's no way these people with the intelligence to be in the position they are in to begin with couldn't foresee the controversy it would cause.

At the end of the day, there can't be too many women in those 10 rows and I assume these guys haven't lost their voice and would actually be able to say 'hey, act like us or get out'.

But they chose to circulate a leaflet for a reason. They chose to use Anne Frank stickers instead of having some verbal 'banter' for a reason. They choose to 'boo' black players and not white players for a reason. They choose to boycott stadiums one minute, then tell everyone to stop boycotting the stadium next for a reason.
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Sile

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Re: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2018, 11:58:20 AM »

The most innocent explanation is that they want those 10 rows reserved for themselves and they want it to be filled only with the most passionate of supporters. I personally don't see any justification whatsoever for that, but ok.

I think it boils down to this.

As for the other stuff mentioned, that's a whole other discussion. But I do agree that they take a weird, reckless and downright stupid approach at getting attention.
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Cathal

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Re: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2018, 12:03:30 PM »

The most innocent explanation is that they want those 10 rows reserved for themselves and they want it to be filled only with the most passionate of supporters. I personally don't see any justification whatsoever for that, but ok.

I think it boils down to this.

As for the other stuff mentioned, that's a whole other discussion. But I do agree that they take a weird, reckless and downright stupid approach at getting attention.

It's not weird, reckless or stupid in my opinion - it's clever, calculated and effective.

They chose to circulate a sexist leaflet on the night everyone was watching Serie A for CR7, and stole the headlines.

The question, as always, is why.

You or I can accept the most innocent explanation if you or I would like, but I would've thought at this point everyone knows there's more to these statements.
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Akha

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Re: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2018, 12:03:37 PM »

Attention is the key word I think. I believe these people really need it, that's what makes them feel important, what makes them feel in charge. And I don't really mind it that much as I used to - if someone bases their opinion of me as a Lazio fan on what this group does then it's generalization and speaks volumes for such a person.
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Sile

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Re: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2018, 12:58:20 PM »

The most innocent explanation is that they want those 10 rows reserved for themselves and they want it to be filled only with the most passionate of supporters. I personally don't see any justification whatsoever for that, but ok.

I think it boils down to this.

As for the other stuff mentioned, that's a whole other discussion. But I do agree that they take a weird, reckless and downright stupid approach at getting attention.

It's not weird, reckless or stupid in my opinion - it's clever, calculated and effective.

They chose to circulate a sexist leaflet on the night everyone was watching Serie A for CR7, and stole the headlines.

The question, as always, is why.

You or I can accept the most innocent explanation if you or I would like, but I would've thought at this point everyone knows there's more to these statements.

Without knowing the "why", without knowing their ultimate goal or agenda, you can only look at these incidents as separate events.
Everything has already been said about Anne Frank stickers.
Same goes for booing black players.
The hanging of mannequins dressed as roma players was stupid, dangerous and morbid.

I consider this action as distinctly different from the above. Maybe there is something to it, as you said, stealing the spotlight from Juve and Ronaldo, but ultimately is an internal affair, nothing to do with the general public.
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Rizmo

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Re: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2018, 01:01:46 PM »

And what is the reason in your opinion, Cathal?
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Cathal

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Re: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2018, 01:21:20 PM »

Without knowing the "why", without knowing their ultimate goal or agenda, you can only look at these incidents as separate events.
Everything has already been said about Anne Frank stickers.
Same goes for booing black players.
The hanging of mannequins dressed as roma players was stupid, dangerous and morbid.

I consider this action as distinctly different from the above. Maybe there is something to it, as you said, stealing the spotlight from Juve and Ronaldo, but ultimately is an internal affair, nothing to do with the general public.

Clearly very few are choosing to look at these actions as 'separate events' when almost everyone is saying something along the lines of 'this is what they do'. Furthermore, we don't choose to see each instance as 'separate' when we read what's written about Lazio in the media. Even if the plot isn't clear, there remains a narrative.

And it wouldn't be reported in the media across the world if had nothing to do with the general public. For it to have been a main news story in many countries, it has to be of interest to the general public. And there's no point arguing that they are unaware of this because they are very aware of this: it was argued that the media blew this up to distract from the Morandi bridge tragedy. But they gave the media the distraction.

I can understand where you are coming from personally Sile, but I don't agree with your stance here.

And what is the reason in your opinion, Cathal?

With any group, I'm not sure anyone other than the leader knows the real intention of anything.

But in my opinion, these moves increase their power and influence on the stands, because they know the club will back them.

To what extent the club will back them, in my opinion, is why they are pushing the boundaries and this tests the waters because what this specifically does in my opinion is target other Lazio stadium-goers.

The racism, the Anne Frank stickers, the mannequins didn't really effect Lazio supporters - this does. Albeit, a minority and a vulnerable minority at that.

But there's more to it. IRR did a 180 on Lazio and Lazio did a 180 on IRR and that's never been explained. It's something that happened and can't just be a total change of opinion on both sides.

I get it on Lazio's side - they want a positive atmosphere in Rome to aid results which is good for business, therefore they want the Ultras on side.

Why IRR are backing Lotito is where there's intrigue.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 01:23:22 PM by Cathal »
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drazvan

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Re: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2018, 01:39:26 PM »

What is unclear for me is - was is an IRR action or just a small funny named group...I've read that this is a pretty unkonwn section of the ultras and it might be that they just wanted some attention. Problem is - these are not real supporters. To throw shit at the club just to be in the media is something I cannot understand. A real supporter would not do that. Anyhow, I did not see any official reaction from IRR on this, that also says a lot.
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Sile

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Re: Help me show the world that Lazio are not a club
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2018, 01:39:40 PM »

That's all just speculation though, isn't it. They have an agenda, that's for sure, but not every action is necessarily tied to that agenda. This situation with the leaflet, to me at least, is just "housekeeping". Strictly internal.

As you said, the situation is unclear, and no-one knows what deal has been struck between the club and the IRR, but so far it works. It's certainly better than boycotts and anti-Lotito chants the entire match, which drove even the casual fans and sympathizers away
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