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La SS LAZIO => MATCHES => Topic started by: Evesto on November 25, 2017, 08:23:31 PM

Title: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Evesto on November 25, 2017, 08:23:31 PM
SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina  1-1

(http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2017/11/1639656_SS_Lazio.jpg)(http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2017/11/1643598_Fiorentina.jpg)

*25' De Vrij (Luis Alberto) FK
*93' Babacar (P)

subs: Lukaku (Lulic), Basta (Marusic), Caicedo (Luis Alberto)
subs: Hugo (Laurini), Babacar (Thereau), Saponara (Benassi)

highlights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXvIdDRofyM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXvIdDRofyM)

positional & situational:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1225274/MatchReport/Italy-Serie-A-2017-2018-Lazio-Fiorentina (https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1225274/MatchReport/Italy-Serie-A-2017-2018-Lazio-Fiorentina)
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on November 26, 2017, 07:51:46 PM
1-1

Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: kevlar on November 26, 2017, 07:52:40 PM
Ridiculous, subs coming in and looking more exhausted than starting 11. Horrible second half..
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on November 26, 2017, 07:53:18 PM
We've had a great season so far, but awful work from Inzaghi today..
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Secret_Samadhi on November 26, 2017, 07:54:06 PM
Caicedo my Good, why Inzaghi you throw him in while trying to close the game?
We didin't deserve 3 points. Bad game. Our momentum is gone.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Hadi Van Der Vaart on November 26, 2017, 07:55:27 PM
Dont know how that could be a penalty! This VAR thing is stupid sometimes!
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: circleplus on November 26, 2017, 07:55:55 PM
poor form of ciro, parolo, lulic I think
simply not enough clinical
start losing the winning form after the international break
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Boksic on November 26, 2017, 07:56:04 PM
The ref has to be an idiot. Was that even a penalty? Caicedo was dumb no doubt about it.. but that was extremely harsh.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: moody on November 26, 2017, 07:56:35 PM
how could that even be a penalty
that is why people don't watch italian football
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Addi1900 on November 26, 2017, 07:57:52 PM
Imo it was a penalty. Our fault for not playing better against a mediocre Viola side. Paolo and Immobile wtf? Still having Italy hangover? Wake the **** up.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Sile on November 26, 2017, 07:58:04 PM
Shaking with anger, this is beyond bullsh1t
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Emko on November 26, 2017, 07:58:28 PM
In the first half the tackle against Parolo wasn't a penalty but this is?!? WTF?!?!

Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: circleplus on November 26, 2017, 07:58:43 PM
i think the referee is on fiorentina side tonight...
after watching most of his judgements...
what a poor level of referee
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Nando87 on November 26, 2017, 07:59:02 PM
When your depth is players like Caicedo are Lega pro div2 quality this is what happens.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on November 26, 2017, 07:59:15 PM
Ciro didn't have much to work with today, but our entire midfield were awful today.

I'm not impressed with Inzaghi at all. How the fu ck can he ignore the obvious issues with fatigue in the midfield. We have Murgia sitting on the bench who is fit and can replace one of the tired midfielders..but he chooses to sub in Basta who looked injured, Caicedo who just came back from an injury and Lukaku who also has fitness issues..

I obviously give Inzaghi credit for a lot of the things we've seen this season, but today he failed.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Boksic on November 26, 2017, 07:59:42 PM
how could that even be a penalty
that is why people don't watch italian football

I wonder what would have happened if the ball didnt go out and Lukaku managed to go around the Fiorentina player and the match continued to the final whistle.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Emko on November 26, 2017, 07:59:46 PM
Imo it was a penalty.

Yeah, there is a contact, but if every contact is a foul, so there will be like 40 penalties in every game.

Why the refferee didn't use VAR in the first half for Parolo tackle?

I am so pissed of...
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Lazio Forever on November 26, 2017, 08:00:28 PM
Italian football has always been controversial, but this is too much even for Italian football.
There is a plot against us and there is no way arround it.

Really dissapointed.
This is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: edo_shehb on November 26, 2017, 08:00:37 PM
there should be limit of how long ref let the ball play before decide to use VAR

I mean strakosha save seem useless now  :ops:
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Rizmo on November 26, 2017, 08:02:10 PM
I knew Massa would fu ck us over. He hates us and we hate him! Cunt! Hopefully Tare floored him later.

How was that a penalty? Wasn't it Caicedo who got the ball? And Pezzela who was so hurt by the kick from Caicedo was doing a bicycleta moments later. How long can the fuc king ref go back to watch the VAR? This is a joke. Unbelievable.

Flop of the match - Parolo. Useless performance.

Great way to ruin the week.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Crni Đorđe on November 26, 2017, 08:03:19 PM
That is not a penalty by any, any rule in book.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on November 26, 2017, 08:06:47 PM
Khouma Babacar - Goal HD - Lazio 1-1 Fiorentina 26.11.2017 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqHQAhG-QEo#)

Penalty or not?
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Lazio Forever on November 26, 2017, 08:09:52 PM
Caicedo kicked the ball first.
What is not clear here?
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: kevlar on November 26, 2017, 08:10:17 PM
How can anyone say that it was a pen is beyond me..
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Hadi Van Der Vaart on November 26, 2017, 08:10:58 PM
First of all, that referee is a dickhead! Second, yes there was contact, but Caicedo kicked tha ball first, even the game was go on after that n fio got a chance to score. In normal world, the referee always let the game go, but that dickhead went for VAR so he could have excuse to make us not winning the game. Vattene!!

Yes some players looked like a bit hangover on the field today. I can accept if we didnt take 3 points, but I cant accept if it was stolen like that. What a shame!!
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on November 26, 2017, 08:11:01 PM
Caicedo kicked the ball first.
What is not clear here?

No if you pause it you can see the Caicedo's leg under the Fiorentina player's leg.

Guys watch the replay and pause when there's contact, Caicedos leg is under the other player's leg.

Whether it's enough for a penalty, I don't know..
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: circleplus on November 26, 2017, 08:11:46 PM
if such kind of contact is a foul,
Parolo should have been rewarded a penalty kick in the first half.
garbage level referee with double standards.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Evesto on November 26, 2017, 08:12:09 PM
Lazio played an awful game but that doesn't mean we didn't deserve to win, altough it could have gone either way with Viola's one open chance in the first half but luckely with a bad finish.

I'm not evn going to bitch much about the late penalty since Massa could have given Viola a clear one when Marusic had a brainfart ealrier. 
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: edo_shehb on November 26, 2017, 08:14:06 PM
Caicedo kicked the ball first.
What is not clear here?

No if you pause it you can see the Caicedo's leg under the Fiorentina player's leg.

Guys watch the replay and pause when there's contact, Caicedos leg is under the other player's leg.

Whether it's enough for a penalty, I don't know..

it still 50-50 at most, and they even still got their chance after that, how generous of that ref to (still) award him that pen
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Addi1900 on November 26, 2017, 08:17:28 PM
He kicks his ankle from what I can tell, clear penalty. However why not look at the Parolo incident with Var? We are getting the short end of the stick with this Var system for sure.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on November 26, 2017, 08:18:32 PM
For me it's obvious there's something wrong with the team right now and I think it comes down to fitness...the fact we have such a weak bench means we're not really a team that can play so many matches and maintain momentum..

I've said this before, but I believe most of the players we have on the bench simply aren't good enough. So the coach ends up playing the tired players anyway because he has no other choice..it's been the same every season for as long as I can remember..

The busy schedule will continue..I don't see us getting back into the top 4 unless something fantastic happens in January..

Just look at this bench, holy shit.

Patric
Jordan Lukaku
Dusan Basta
Wallace
Felipe Caicedo
Guido Guerrieri
Ivan Vargic
Luiz Felipe
Simone Palombi
Pedro Neto
Alessandro Murgia
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: stefano_40 on November 26, 2017, 08:21:14 PM
Khouma Babacar - Goal HD - Lazio 1-1 Fiorentina 26.11.2017 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqHQAhG-QEo#[/url])

Penalty or not?


If we were 3-0 up, I'd have been annoyed to concede that. That's not a penalty. There's a slight bit of contact in the box. There are at least 5 players between the ball and the goal. This is not a clear goal scoring opportunity, the player has his back towards goal, he is not swinging his foot at the ball to attempt a shot. It is not sufficient contact to cause the player to fall and clutch his ankle, only to rise 20 seconds later and try a bicycle kick. In context, this decision is ridiculous.

This is my major problem with VAR. If the referee doesn't have the chance to review that, then he can't award it due to how weak of a shout it was. Unless the decision is going to be correct 100% of the time, which it is far from, then what's actually the point of it?
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Don on November 26, 2017, 08:25:54 PM
Well, that was clear play on... imo...

With a finished chance!!!

Would he called the goal back for the penalty if that chance went for a goal? No!

So I feel betrayed
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Hadi Van Der Vaart on November 26, 2017, 08:29:35 PM
The suspecious part of it for me is where the hell he got an idea to review that? I believe he didnt realize or even think for what happen there, but then when there was replay on my streaming for that incident he suddenly talked with somebody on his earphone n went to check the video!
I thought they only used VAR when referee just in doubt with the things that he didnt see clearly, not because somebody whispers in his ear.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 26, 2017, 08:33:30 PM
It is usually the VAR referee that makes the call and in this case, VAR referee would've seen the situation on replay and suggested to the referee that it was a penalty. It's difficult to see, but looks to me that Caicedo doesn't get that ball at all. Letter of the law, it's a foul and a penalty, but we had this exact debate last week and I haven't the energy to go through it again.

This is why VAR doesn't work.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: badboyyy on November 26, 2017, 08:33:30 PM
5 defenders 2 goalies 1 dm 1 cm 2 st ~ when we wanna boost attack, who will go apart Calcedo?
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: valdanito on November 26, 2017, 08:36:07 PM
Questionable subs today. Leiva was my personal fav out there today. SMS, Parolo and Immobile were far from impressive. we lost 2 vital points and now have a very tricky away game coming up.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on November 26, 2017, 08:38:19 PM
Question: Was it also Massa that refereed that awful derby some years ago where he gave 2 soft penalties to 1927?
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: hamid on November 26, 2017, 08:39:25 PM
VAR is OK if only to be used for offside, hand fouls, to check whether the ball passed the goal line or not... But for such ordinary situations, NO!
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Crni Đorđe on November 26, 2017, 08:43:59 PM
Would be fun to see would he consult VAR if Pezzella's bicycle kick enters goal couple second later...
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Roman_Eagle on November 26, 2017, 08:51:09 PM
that was a penalty, unlike last week one. clearly the viola player gets the ball, while caicedo kicks him in the leg
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Rizmo on November 26, 2017, 08:55:30 PM
Question: Was it also Massa that refereed that awful derby some years ago where he gave 2 soft penalties to 1927?

No. Massa is far away from refereeing a derby. Biggest moment in his career was the Supercoppa final this season, before that it was Partizan-Olympiacos in a UCL qualifier. Amateur.

He was the ref in the 1-2 loss against Inter with the Hernanes brace and backflip.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Delta on November 26, 2017, 09:04:17 PM
How about we work on this problem in Formello until it is fixed, too many times similar incidents cost us points we cant afford to throw away... Caicedo is experienced player, why he does this stupid kick? Outside box or very near to goalline as last resort maybe you can do it, but in this situation there was like 10 players  between ball and Strakosha it is just stupid.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Crni Đorđe on November 26, 2017, 09:05:46 PM
Question: Was it also Massa that refereed that awful derby some years ago where he gave 2 soft penalties to 1927?

He was the ref in the 1-2 loss against Inter with the Hernanes brace and backflip.

And that match was one of biggest shame I ever saw in Serie A - by referee.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Gianni Calcio on November 26, 2017, 09:09:01 PM
Disgusting I hate Serie A so fixed. Inzaghi also made terrible subs how can you bring on a striker when we're trying to kill the game?!?!?! So pissed!
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: stefano_40 on November 26, 2017, 09:35:03 PM
Strakosha just posted on Instagram. A blank screen with the words "thanks for the non existent penalty"  :whistle:  :whistle:

Totally with him here, but not sure it's smart for the players to be up to that kind of business.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Danish-Laziofan on November 26, 2017, 09:40:28 PM
Strakosha just posted on Instagram. A blank screen with the words "thanks for the non existent penalty"  :whistle:  :whistle:

Totally with him here, but not sure it's smart for the players to be up to that kind of business.

Well when your manager says the same thing at the press conference who knows what he said in the locker room and thus a lot of players might take that view and see it as ok to post such stuff on social media.

Patric did the same thing after the Juve match.

About the game - we didn't play up to our standards and to be fair, Fiorentina did look like a motivated side who wanted a result.   
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: hamid on November 26, 2017, 09:43:41 PM
I dont find the pic on his Instagram. Probably already deleted.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Crni Đorđe on November 26, 2017, 09:50:21 PM
But 'motivated' Florentia had their - by far - best chance when they got awarded penalty in last minute of match. Motivated or not, Lazio were in control of match until very last moment with favorable result and allowed Florentia only shots from distance. I saw 1927, Inda and Napoli winning this kind of matches entire season.

It's bad feeling because I think it's injustice had been thrown into mix.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Secret_Samadhi on November 26, 2017, 10:01:20 PM
We can yell at the stupid referee yes, but this result has some Inzaghi fault also. Why sub in a striker who is just coming back from a injury and a fatique issue for an attacking midfielder is beyond me. Specially when you have fresh Murgia on the bench.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Rizmo on November 26, 2017, 10:03:21 PM
Question: Was it also Massa that refereed that awful derby some years ago where he gave 2 soft penalties to 1927?

He was the ref in the 1-2 loss against Inter with the Hernanes brace and backflip.

And that match was one of biggest shame I ever saw in Serie A - by referee.

Yep. Massa must have inferiority complex by acting like a big dick all the time.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Evesto on November 26, 2017, 10:08:51 PM
But 'motivated' Florentia had their - by far - best chance when they got awarded penalty in last minute of match. Motivated or not, Lazio were in control of match until very last moment with favorable result and allowed Florentia only shots from distance. I saw 1927, Inda and Napoli winning this kind of matches entire season.

It's bad feeling because I think it's injustice had been thrown into mix.

That's how you become a title candidate, by winning ugly games.  Juve, Inda and Napels have been doing it.  Winning good ones and bad ones.  We are not on that train and won't jump on either.  To many flaws, mistakes ...
And of course extra help from the usual refs.  :roll_eyes:
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Terzino on November 26, 2017, 10:39:51 PM
Massa pezzo di merda. What a shit stain like this is doing reffing a professional match is beyond me.

Some are talking about Fiorentina showing more motivation but all I saw was desparation from the team that was losing. Also not having a great game doesn't mean we weren't the better side.

Points stolen from us yet again.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Crni Đorđe on November 26, 2017, 10:51:29 PM
Massa pezzo di merda. What a shit stain like this is doing reffing a professional match is beyond me.

Some are talking about Fiorentina showing more motivation but all I saw was desparation from the team that was losing. Also not having a great game doesn't mean we weren't the better side.

Points stolen from us yet again.

Saying that Florentia had good game is like saying that Lazio had it better over SPAL in first round. And we all very well know that wasn't a case.

Never had such strong feeling of injustice been done to Lazio recently. Funnily enough, last time when I felt that way was 'again' with Massa and infamous Lazio - Inda two and a half years ago.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: moody on November 27, 2017, 04:47:52 AM
If Caicedo's contact is a penalty, we would have lots more penalties for every match including pushes, shoulder nudges particularly during corner situations, which did not happen for us. Didn't even give us the free kicks near the box for these types of contact. The referees are considering these situations because they are last minute and they give in to pressure easily, that's why last minute penalties are more often after VAR is in place.

For the match, both team's keepers performed excellently, and for the balance of play, a draw is perhaps reasonable, though in reality we are deprived of a well deserved win. Makes no sense to play on the game and let them shoot a bicycle kick, then award a penalty, it is giving them a double advantage.

For a first team which didn't play on Thur, and staying at home for the game, our fitness is so bad without excuse. SMS is particularly bad and I don't think Leiva is at the top of his game too. Parolo seems shaky but at least he ran a lot and made contribution.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: campiador on November 27, 2017, 04:50:21 AM
Now that the anger has settled, in retrospect I believe we played an okay game. Sure we lost possession of ball too many times, but hey, Alberto, Sergej, and Parolo are our best mid-fielders.


Regarding subsititions, Inzaghi's changes where good imo.

I remember thinking man Marusic is not helping the defense at all during their counter attacks, because he had been running all night. And right after that Basta was switched in.

Also he needed to play Lukaku after the latter did a good job in the previous game.

As for Caicedo, I think Inzaghi was counting on the striker's ball-holding skills. Little did we know about Caicedo's karate skills.

If Parolo had gone for placement rather than power in the header, and had chosen to put the ball where it came from (left side of the goal), then Fiorentina's goalie simply would have watched the ball hit the net.

If there is a take-away from this game: we need to learn to calm down when we are ahead, keep the possesison, and be able to control the game by passing the ball more than ten times.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: edo_shehb on November 27, 2017, 05:25:29 AM
If Caicedo's contact is a penalty, we would have lots more penalties for every match including pushes, shoulder nudges particularly during corner situations, which did not happen for us. Didn't even give us the free kicks near the box for these types of contact. The referees are considering these situations because they are last minute and they give in to pressure easily, that's why last minute penalties are more often after VAR is in place.

For the match, both team's keepers performed excellently, and for the balance of play, a draw is perhaps reasonable, though in reality we are deprived of a well deserved win. Makes no sense to play on the game and let them shoot a bicycle kick, then award a penalty, it is giving them a double advantage.

For a first team which didn't play on Thur, and staying at home for the game, our fitness is so bad without excuse. SMS is particularly bad and I don't think Leiva is at the top of his game too. Parolo seems shaky but at least he ran a lot and made contribution.

when the ref award card after give play on  / advantage, I can understand, but this, can
please somebody give us valid explanation of this, if any

by somebody I mean you, cathal  :beer:
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: blue-white on November 27, 2017, 08:53:32 AM
In my opinion, the ref only looks if there is a contact and decide - penalty or not. And that's wrong in my opinion.

In my opinion, this scene is a clear foul on Caicedo. If he would have fallen down, ref would have given freekick for us.
Why? - that's easy. Look at the scene again, and you will see that the opponent is coming with his stretched leg to the ball direction. Strechted leg is a foul in such a situation. But i'm pretty sure, that VAR is only watching contact - yes/no.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Sile on November 27, 2017, 09:06:30 AM
F*ck them and f*ck this and f*ck football in general. VAR was supposed to be something to clear the controversies, not create them, not in the 93rd f*cking minute
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Crni Đorđe on November 27, 2017, 09:07:44 AM
I can't make myself calm even this morning. We have ref who, three meters away saw it live and let play on. Two minutes after, we had seen same ref overruling his original decision based on footages from which I still today can't see is there contact. And he saw footages from same angles we saw it during replays live.

On base of what he can overturn rule? What? Every contact in box is penalty after yesterday, every.

Injustice
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Sile on November 27, 2017, 09:14:30 AM
Look at Tare holding his hands behind his back, I believe he was very close to slapping some sense into that cunt

(http://cdn.corrieredellosport.it/images/2017/11/26/203052619-7b86abfa-fc0e-46de-9c1a-de8e513f4d85.jpg)

(http://cdn.corrieredellosport.it/images/2017/11/26/203044244-d543bca7-1c33-4ca1-b502-5156f17a78b7.jpg)
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 27, 2017, 10:54:26 AM
Regarding play being allowed to continue before a decision was made to go to VAR, referees must wait until the attack is over. Otherwise, had we gone to VAR immediately and found it was not a penalty, Fiorentina could complain that their last chance to equalise in the game was ruined. There is a rule in place that referees must wait. Also, VAR can be requested by the referee or suggested to the referee by the VAR official, and in the case of the latter, there is always going to be a delay.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Evesto on November 27, 2017, 12:24:18 PM
Didn't sleep.  The kind of injustice that's bad for the heart.  I knew some were gonna try and keep us back this season but this kind of thing is a little to obvious if you ask me.  I'd better stay offline today, bad for my health.  :sevil:
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: edo_shehb on November 27, 2017, 12:43:18 PM
Regarding play being allowed to continue before a decision was made to go to VAR, referees must wait until the attack is over. Otherwise, had we gone to VAR immediately and found it was not a penalty, Fiorentina could complain that their last chance to equalise in the game was ruined. There is a rule in place that referees must wait. Also, VAR can be requested by the referee or suggested to the referee by the VAR official, and in the case of the latter, there is always going to be a delay.

if that the official rules than it had very big flaw

what about if the play still on for like 5 mins or 10?, and what would happen if the opposite side score while the play still on?

perhaps  we should've follow the tennis rules (CMIIW), any team had the call/challenge to use VAR with limitation (one for each team oer game maybe enough)

edit : oh and it should've have some kind of time limitation to use it after the incident

Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: phantomm1976 on November 27, 2017, 12:43:40 PM
 That wasn't the penalty. Even the viola players didnt complain.... btw why the Var didnt watch complete action before that episode ?
 We wasn't impresive-but this doesnt means to give the opponents this kind of penalty's. This is the second time that Var gives the penaltys vs us at the last seconds of match !.
 Parolo contact was much clear that this one,same the Marusic stupid contact....
 Its not Massa- Var decide this, the refeere are under pressure-thats it.
 Caicedo kicked the ball-simply.
 I understand Tare-Strakosha....
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: phantomm1976 on November 27, 2017, 12:54:57 PM
 About the match :
 Same like in derby : we are slow, no more dynamic style, tired. Put the noncreativity problem(no FA-Nani) and becomes clear that this is our crisses time.
 Strakosha was very good. Same goes for DV and Lulic( who always cover his side and made great assist for Parolo).
 Marusic have speed but no brain. He could coast us 3 times in first 20 min. Lose the ball and do not follow the viola counters. True,once run with the ball 70 meters and won the corner kick-if this is his max....! Stupid contact in the last minute of first half.
 Parolo was lost in field-I cant understand Simone why simply didnt sub him ?!
 Leiva was good,Ciro was very good-he support the defense and was near once(the first time that he had a chance for shot).
 Sms-Alberto poor second half.
 Sadly,we lose two points.
 Fiorentina was poor also. They try but nothing serious.
 
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on November 27, 2017, 02:35:17 PM
https://amantedellabola.com/2017/11/27/rigore/

Better replay here. For me, not a penalty at all. Caicedo gets to the ball first and kicks it away. What's he supposed to do, stop trying to kick the ball away? It's the same as doing a tackle on the ball but also taking the player down..not a penalty..
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Crni Đorđe on November 27, 2017, 02:37:01 PM
It's a freaking steal. Was trying not to write that from match end, but can't help.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 27, 2017, 02:49:18 PM
Watched it about 100 times now and Caicedo hasn't won that challenge on any of the 100 occasions, but since everyone says Caicedo won the ball, I'll keep watching and see if he gets it the next time  :supsmile:
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: blue-white on November 27, 2017, 02:52:11 PM
still ... clear foul on Caicedo.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Crni Đorđe on November 27, 2017, 03:02:03 PM
But dangerous play by Pezella is very well seen... obviously not by Massa or Fabbri.m
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 27, 2017, 03:10:21 PM
You can argue it's a high foot from Pezzella, for sure. Just saying, I don't see Caicedo making contact with the ball, so you can also argue Caicedo fouls Pezzella, which sadly is what the referee and officials went with.

I still stand by my opinion - kill off games when the games are there to be killed off and stop swingings legs around in our own box in the dying stages, no problems.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: moody on November 27, 2017, 03:10:48 PM
the better replay makes the case even more obvious

yes Caicedo did touch fiorentina, but the fiorentina guy was throwing himself to the ball totally losing balance, when Caicedo is in the clear position to sweep the ball. This is dangerous play and under normal circumstances without last minute pressure, it is highly unlikely to be a penalty.

If this is considered legit, players would throw themselves between the ball and defender everytime, even if it's dangerous and improbable to get the ball.

What Caicedo did is like involuntary handball, which is passive foul in this case. Passive foul doesn't even make sense in the first place.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cnon on November 27, 2017, 03:39:51 PM
Caicedo definitely didn't get the ball first but kicks the back of a Fiorentina player's leg. A shitty way to draw but it's a penalty. But I do think we should have got a penalty too on Parolo's incident even though Parolo is clearly simulating too. We can whine all we want but we should have finished the game with 2-0 and can only blame ourselves for not scoring.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Crni Đorđe on November 27, 2017, 03:50:22 PM
Only definitely that I see from every available footage is that Pezella tackled on with open foot on ball and Caicedo - which is foul, but Massa (or Fabbri) doesn't know that - and one of them (or both) kicked the ball.

Yeah, we might killed the match earlier but we suffered steal and that mainly caused draw. Whining, right...not a single chance from Florentia until penalty.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: stefano_40 on November 27, 2017, 07:46:42 PM
I'm usually pretty fair about penalties given against us, penalties we have been given and penalties we have not been given, and I really thought that after a day or so had passed, I'd be less annoyed and see sense. But nah, this is still a bullshit decision that has gone against us, put us in what some might call a slump, and most importantly, robbed us of two points and the chance to go ahead of Merda and keep pace with the top teams.

Comparing this to last weeks penalty (which was correctly awarded), the context of this play is ludicrous to be awarded. Kolarov was running towards goal, was in position to either pull the trigger or lay the ball to a team mate, and had only one player between himself and the goal.
Pezella is facing away from goal, going for the ball with the "wrong foot" (right foot with the goal to his backwards right), with 4 players blocking his route to goal. There's absolutely no way, even had Caicedo not been there, of Pezella striking the ball with his right foot and it ending up anywhere close to the net. The contact on the ball is dubious, the impact on Pezella is dubious, and I just will not be convinced that this was a penalty. You have to be 100% certain to award a penalty, especially at that stage of the game and with that scoreline.

Regarding general play, we weren't pretty, we weren't great, but I think we controlled the game to the extent that it would have been hailed as a very good "1-0 Grinta win". Fiorentina were limited to a number of very poor long shots. The whispers from the media and anybody else that Fiorentina deserved anything from the game are laughable.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Akha on November 27, 2017, 10:33:49 PM
Inzaghi also made terrible subs how can you bring on a striker when we're trying to kill the game?!?!?! So pissed!

Had Simone brought on a defender he'd have been called a coward  :whistle:
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Dakiller961 on November 28, 2017, 08:45:30 AM
Watched it about 100 times now and Caicedo hasn't won that challenge on any of the 100 occasions, but since everyone says Caicedo won the ball, I'll keep watching and see if he gets it the next time  :supsmile:

Why am I not surprised you would be the only one who saw it differently  :whistle: :whistle:

the thing is, I watched it a 100 times from different angles and still can't see who got the ball first, and when you are that undecided, in a position that isn't dangerous at all, with a high leg from the defender and caicedo actually trying to play the ball and in the 94th minute with play continued resulted in a very dangerous attack, no referee in there right mind should give this penalty.
I lean to another calciopoli and FIGC just don't want us to get a CL spot
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 28, 2017, 09:12:42 AM
Why am I not surprised you would be the only one who saw it differently  :whistle: :whistle:

I'm not the only one who saw it differently - plenty have said here this situation was a penalty and there were a few last week who felt the Bastos-Kolarov incident was a penalty - and in my opinion, there'd be more people here expressing the same if they felt they were allowed to look at these situations objectively and say what they see without being painted as the devil's advocate.

Pezzella's leg was clearly over Caicedo's leg, which means Caicedo most definitely made contact with Pezzella - the fact Pezzella fell straight to the ground clutching his leg is another big clue. He could've been acting I guess, but as I said last week, this is what you have to do to get decisions. If Caicedo fell to the ground himself, trust me, this penalty is never given.

The referee has to decide if Caicedo was careless or reckless in his attempt to clear the ball. Considering Pezzella ended up on the ground seemingly in pain, it's not unreasonable to suggest Caicedo was careless and/or reckless in which case the penalty should be given.

Crni Đorđe and blue-white have made the point that Pezzella's challenge was dangerous and therefore what Caicedo did was irrelevant. The problem from the referee's perspective is that it's difficult to argue a challenge on Caicedo was dangerous when Caicedo was the one player who didn't go down under the challenge. If it was a dangerous challenge, it didn't end up looking dangerous.

Personally, I think play could've been waved on here and it could also have not gone to VAR and become a penalty, but I can see why it was given. And when I can see why it was given, I can't reasonably argue that there's a calculated plan in place to keep us out of the Champions League places. After all, if Caicedo wasn't there in the first place swinging his leg in our box, Massa and Fabbro couldn't have done their worst.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: edo_shehb on November 28, 2017, 10:15:46 AM
the positive thing is now we distance our self from the scudetto talk  :whistle:

the sad thing is nobody seem to care bout this incident except us ( though perhaps I'm the one who's not having enough resources), I mean do what tare did is even allowed and if not will he have to pay some fines or something?
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: emhad on November 28, 2017, 10:17:23 AM
Guys if you have an option, which one do you prefer?
A. Won against Juve but drew against Viola.
B. Drew against Juve but won against Viola?
 :cnstend:
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: blue-white on November 28, 2017, 10:21:22 AM
win against both :vcool:
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Dakiller961 on November 28, 2017, 10:52:17 AM

Pezzella's leg was clearly over Caicedo's leg,

And this is my point. No it is not clear, inzaghi, Tare, the players, most of us on this forum made it clear that it wasn't clear, yet you keep saying it is.
It is not clear whose leg is over whose, it is not clear if Pazella's leg was in a dangerous position, it is not clear that caicedo was not playing the ball, it is not clear that pazella was in a goal scoring position and based on all of that, a penalty should not be given.
I am more persuaded of the filth of serie A after what I saw and I am sure , no, positive that Calciopoli is not over and never was.

In short I will never understand how can the 5th referee demand VAR on thsi but didn't on parolo's nor did the main referee when Lulic demanded it. and will never understand from now on each and every altercations in the box not to be called by VAR after this
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: lazioserbia on November 28, 2017, 10:54:38 AM
Touch or no touch, it was ****ing ridiculous to give them a penalty in the last minute of the game. We played awfully and some players are seemingly tired.

I'm going to say that Strakosha was awful again on the penalty. Fiorentina player had such a run up that he could only shoot to the left and Strakosha has to know this shit otherwise he is nowhere near the level we need.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: blue-white on November 28, 2017, 11:07:49 AM
It is clear that the leg of Caicedo is under the leg of the opponent. That's pretty clear.

It's absolutely not clear if Caicedo touches with his toes the ball first, and then the leg of the opponent.

But as i already said for some time .... it doesn't matter who touches the ball first - fact is that the opponent comes from the side/from behind with a stretched leg to the ball direction. And that is a clear foul! This is the point why it's absolutely no penalty!
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 28, 2017, 11:10:42 AM

Pezzella's leg was clearly over Caicedo's leg,


And this is my point. No it is not clear, inzaghi, Tare, the players, most of us on this forum made it clear that it wasn't clear, yet you keep saying it is.

Because it is.

(http://www.labaroviola.com/labaro_content/uploads/2017/11/20171127_132449-300x174.jpg)

It was clear to me from the first replay I saw. I don't mind debating the penalty call - I'm interested in that debate - but I'm not interested in having to debate my own eyesight every week. I know what I'm seeing with my eyes, if I'm delusional and Caicedo's leg is above Pezzella's in that image, let me know so I can go see my doctor.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: valdanito on November 28, 2017, 07:00:48 PM
I want to think I am pretty honest when it comes to lazio calls, but the more I look at it the more I think it was not a penalty. I think Caicedo gets to the ball first and if anything it should be a foul on Caicedo, not the other way around.

That said, I think I understand the call (even if wrong) considering the angles that were first offered and that you have to look at it one thousand times to be sure it was not a penalty.

There is no conspiracy, the pk from Bastos waas the righjt call and this one could have gone wither way.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 28, 2017, 07:24:25 PM
I want to think I am pretty honest when it comes to lazio calls, but the more I look at it the more I think it was not a penalty. I think Caicedo gets to the ball first and if anything it should be a foul on Caicedo, not the other way around.

That said, I think I understand the call (even if wrong) considering the angles that were first offered and that you have to look at it one thousand times to be sure it was not a penalty.

There is no conspiracy, the pk from Bastos waas the righjt call and this one could have gone wither way.

That's basically where I'm coming from.

I too think Caicedo might well have made contact with the ball, but if so, it's a miskick and if he's made contact with player in the process, it's irrelevant.

Fouls are a matter of interpretation up to a point and while I think it should have been interpreted as a 50/50 and that play should've been waved on and left at that, the referee has to make a decision in real time and VAR only affords a minute or two of replays with which to make the call. I can see why it was given with that in mind.

I do find it somewhat absurd that it wasn't given, went to VAR, and then was given but then I find VAR absurd in general and that has little to do with this situation.

But for me, it's the counter-arguments and absolving all guilt from the team that gets under my skin. We haven't made the Champions League in 10 years and in those 10 years, we've done a brilliant job of blaming referees for it.

Seen many argue that this call was ridiculous as VAR wasn't used when Parolo went down in their box. But unless I've got the incident wrong, if there was a foul on Parolo, it was outside the box in which case VAR shouldn't be permitted to be used.

I don't know. I blame VAR for everything.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: valdanito on November 28, 2017, 07:31:32 PM
Inzaghi also said he looked at it 20 times and that he never saw the penalty. But why did he have to look at it 20 times?

I am all in for the VAR, I actually think it even adds excitement to the game, but these things are going to happen. It's hard putting in place the perfect system that won't affect the pace of the game.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Crni Đorđe on November 28, 2017, 07:55:55 PM
My problem is purely with methodology and logic in this decision. Live, Massa who was positioned on right place to see it good let game going on, after it he goes to VAR then seeing this footages who aren't at all clear who touches who and who touches the ball - and this is place where will some of us need to agree that disagree - he changes decision and awards penalty. On base of what?

Would accept this call if he call for penalty live, then consults VAR and confirms decision. But this illogical decision making I won't accept any time in my life. I can't see contact between those two from any angle, even today. It's a bad refereeing and I feel all outrage that came from club regarding this is more about that - not about call itself.

Not to mention foul play by Pezzella before incriminated incident.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Secret_Samadhi on November 28, 2017, 08:04:25 PM
We are focusing on the wrong things here, penalty or no penalty, we lost 2 points mainly coz we played so bad and honestly we didn't deserved more than one point. We need to step up our game and frankly I can't see how Inzaghi will turn things around since we have two made of glass players FA and Nani that we can't rely on. It leaves us only with Ciro and Alberto upnfront and thats scary.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: drazvan on November 28, 2017, 08:10:09 PM
We are focusing on the wrong things here, penalty or no penalty, we lost 2 points mainly coz we played so bad and honestly we didn't deserved more than one point. We need to step up our game and frankly I can't see how Inzaghi will turn things around since we have two made of glass players FA and Nani that we can't rely on. It leaves us only with Ciro and Alberto upnfront and thats scary.

Fully agreed with this. With Milinkovic and Ciro in the curremt shape a point was all we could get on Sunday. Must say Fiorentina deserved the draw and I dont like that Inzaghi is speaking like we lost just because of the refree.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Evesto on November 28, 2017, 08:20:56 PM
We are focusing on the wrong things here, penalty or no penalty, we lost 2 points mainly coz we played so bad and honestly we didn't deserved more than one point. We need to step up our game and frankly I can't see how Inzaghi will turn things around since we have two made of glass players FA and Nani that we can't rely on. It leaves us only with Ciro and Alberto upnfront and thats scary.

That was my first reaction to more or less in the start of this topic, but also before i saw the images in replay from differen angles.

But still it has it's truth of course.  We neglected to go for the kill and during times in the game while having the upperhand we even started to stall.  Then you just now when the slightest thing goes wrong you will be on the receiving end.

Yet, it doesn't mean this penalty had to set us straight.  It shouldn't have been given, disregarding how the previous 92' minutes went.  Wrong is wrong for me, simple as that.

We can say afterwords we neglected to finish them of and human decisions can be wrong (especially with Massa  :roll_eyes:), but that doesn't mean anything can be dragged into the game to point out not to take the oppenent for granted.  A win was the only correct result, sadly that's out of the question now.

Like Cathal posted in the new Samp matchtopic, the only right thing to do is to completely forget that result very quickly and start over. 
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Secret_Samadhi on November 28, 2017, 10:48:22 PM
I don't think it was a penalty at all. Was listining to a three different podcast about Serie A and everyone of them speaking was spot on that there weas no penalty. But, forget about this game and focus on to Samp.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Terzino on November 28, 2017, 11:26:46 PM
We can't always win a game by two or three goals. If you want Lazio to make the CL then ugly wins like this should have been is what we need. You can say we should have killed off the game earlier but that misses the point completely. You can say that about any team that wins by single goal or draws. The ability to win when you're not playing well is what makes silverware winning teams so I can't buy into the comments saying that Viola deserved a point because they didn't.

Cathal as much as don't agree I can appreciate your explaining your views. I'll try to describe how I saw the call.

It looked to me that Felipe touches the ball before Pezzella. If we ignore that, Pezzella comes lunging in from behind and out of Felipe's view to get a touch on the ball. Caicedo has the ball right in front of him, is closer and clearly already attempting to clear the ball so either Pezzella is committing the foul or there is no foul. Beyond even that Pezzella goes down crying and clutching his leg, which you said needs to be done sometimes in games to actually get the ref to make calls that he's supposed to (which is fair enough, this happens in all leagues). The problem is that when the ball comes back to him Pezzella jumps up from the floor like he's trying to make the Olympics and preforms a rather nice bicycle kick. To me his going down should in that case be seen as simulation and he should be booked since he obviously was trying to trick the ref into awarding a penalty.

There should either have been no call, a freekick for us or a booking for Pezzelladimerda and freekick for us.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: drazvan on November 28, 2017, 11:55:10 PM
Of course we cannot win all games by 2 or 3 goals. But we also cannot win all games - even those in which we play bad. Like we did on Sunday. Fiorentina was playing good and the 1-0 for us would have been just lucky. Sometimes we have luck, sometimes not. Maybe the refree would not have given the penalty but Fiorentina would have scored in the next attack. When you are pushing your luck, you cannot complaing - thats all i am saying.

Sure it was no penalty but we were pretty lucky few times this season - and luck turned against us this time.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: christ_JM on November 29, 2017, 03:18:01 AM
Of course we cannot win all games by 2 or 3 goals. But we also cannot win all games - even those in which we play bad. Like we did on Sunday. Fiorentina was playing good and the 1-0 for us would have been just lucky. Sometimes we have luck, sometimes not. Maybe the refree would not have given the penalty but Fiorentina would have scored in the next attack. When you are pushing your luck, you cannot complaing - thats all i am saying.

Sure it was no penalty but we were pretty lucky few times this season - and luck turned against us this time.

Normally I agree with this logic BUT...

are Inter and Roma luckier or better than us or both?

Napoli and Juventus I think are better than us so I won't complain but I don't think that Inter and Roma are better than us so why should they have more luck than us winning by 1 goal margins on so many occasions?
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Evesto on November 29, 2017, 04:31:25 AM
Of course we cannot win all games by 2 or 3 goals. But we also cannot win all games - even those in which we play bad. Like we did on Sunday. Fiorentina was playing good and the 1-0 for us would have been just lucky. Sometimes we have luck, sometimes not. Maybe the refree would not have given the penalty but Fiorentina would have scored in the next attack. When you are pushing your luck, you cannot complaing - thats all i am saying.

Sure it was no penalty but we were pretty lucky few times this season - and luck turned against us this time.

Normally I agree with this logic BUT...

are Inter and Roma luckier or better than us or both?

Napoli and Juventus I think are better than us so I won't complain but I don't think that Inter and Roma are better than us so why should they have more luck than us winning by 1 goal margins on so many occasions?

The difference is they didn't make those individual errors, our team did.  Inter and Merda haven't been more efficient persť, but most goals against Lazio took were avoidable individual errors.  Without the Bastos mishaps in the derby, the chaos against Napoli when injuries occurd and the gamble with Alberto as regista against Spal then we would be topping the league at current.  Of course those others would still be up there also.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: stefano_40 on November 29, 2017, 09:14:59 AM
Of course we cannot win all games by 2 or 3 goals. But we also cannot win all games - even those in which we play bad. Like we did on Sunday. Fiorentina was playing good and the 1-0 for us would have been just lucky. Sometimes we have luck, sometimes not. Maybe the refree would not have given the penalty but Fiorentina would have scored in the next attack. When you are pushing your luck, you cannot complaing - thats all i am saying.

Sure it was no penalty but we were pretty lucky few times this season - and luck turned against us this time.

Normally I agree with this logic BUT...

are Inter and Roma luckier or better than us or both?

Napoli and Juventus I think are better than us so I won't complain but I don't think that Inter and Roma are better than us so why should they have more luck than us winning by 1 goal margins on so many occasions?

The difference is they didn't make those individual errors, our team did.  Inter and Merda haven't been more efficient persť, but most goals against Lazio took were avoidable individual errors.  Without the Bastos mishaps in the derby, the chaos against Napoli when injuries occurd and the gamble with Alberto as regista against Spal then we would be topping the league at current.  Of course those others would still be up there also.

To be fair, I watched the 1927 game on Sunday. De Rossi was sent off for a frankly unforgivable incident. Shortly after that, at 1-1, a ball was played over the top, and a Genoa striker was clean through to chase it for a 1 on 1 with the keeper. Fazio (the last man back) was caught out, cynically stuck out his leg, brought the man down, and killed the goal scoring opportunity for Genoa. The result: A yellow card and a free kick from close to the halfway line. No use to Genoa.

The first thing that I gather from this game, and a number of other games, is that the referee is always too reluctant to give a team a second red card, or not lenient enough when it comes to giving a second penalty when a team has already been awarded a penalty in the same game. The same is true for when they make a bad call at the start of a game and try to play catch up for the rest. We need consistency. You can't be so by the book all the time, except when X, Y and Z has occurred, then you can change your thought process.

Which is slightly beside the point. The real problem I'm having with it is that this should have been one of those "errors" that we keep having punished, but it was not. Genoa then went on to miss two pretty decent chances after this incident, but the argument that "Oh they should have taken those two chances and then they wouldn't be in this position" is irrelevant. 1927 should have gone down to 9 men, and at a score of 1-1, the game could have been changed significantly.

This by no means a cry for conspiracy, as I think that so far in our season we have been awarded some dodgy decisions, we've gotten some soft penalties etc. But a bit of consistency across the board would be nice. Isn't that supposed to be the whole point of VAR?
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 29, 2017, 10:10:26 AM
As the Scudetto goes to the team that drops the least amount of points over 38 specific games, there is a certain element of truth to the idea that good teams win when they play badly and I understand that were it not for this penalty decision - widely seen as an incorrect call - Lazio would've won this game 1-0 without playing particularly well and therefore we might see this as the mark of a great team.

But Lazio are conceding 1.15 goals per game this season and when fatigue kicks in later in the season, unless we improve, that figure will only increase. What makes us different from 1927 and Inter should be obvious - we're not as good at the back and as a result, probably not as well-equipped to cling onto one-goal advantages. Since Inzaghi became manager, we've let the opposition score in 77% of our league games and so far this season, we're at exactly 77%. Had it not been for the Massa and Fabbri, sure, we'd be better off. But to put it into perspective, Juventus' title-winning team of last season only conceded to the opposition in 53% of their league games and Napoli of this season are at 50%.

I understand the argument about the referee and refereeing decisions, but this Lazio team has no chance of a Top 4 finish if when leading games 1-0, we get everyone behind the ball, defending so deep that our striker is in his own box trying to make clearances. We have been excellent frontrunners, turning one-goal leads into convincing victories and we've done so this season against Verona, Cagliari, Benevento etc.

Winning ugly might be the mark of a great team, but it's not going to be a mark of this Lazio side. If we want to be great, we're going to have to do it by outscoring the opposition on a weekly basis.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: blue-white on November 29, 2017, 11:11:56 AM
VAR would be so easy. Like in NFL.

Ref make a call / or not - Var (3 referees in front of tv replays) take a look at this. And THEY tell the ref on the field what will be right now.

On Sunday i saw the main problem in - a ref alone on the field watches on a small screen and decides ALONE about the situation.
The ref was not able to be 100% sure about this penalty, and if it's NOT 100%, he should let the game continue.

Next point: if the VAR referees can't see 100% the situation, the live call of the referee should count - means on sunday - VAR would have watched - can't say for 100% if it's a penalty - ref on the field didn't whistle - so game would have went on. Basta. 
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 29, 2017, 11:21:08 AM
VAR would be so easy. Like in NFL.

You've already gone wrong here in my opinion  :razz:

The clock stops in the NFL and NFL rules are not that open to interpretation - two key reasons replays work in the NFL. If the rules of the game change, VAR can work in football, but if the rules don't change, then VAR is simply going to add an extra layer of controversy - not only does everyone think they are being screwed by the ref, but now they'll feel they are getting screwed by VAR as well.

VAR is creating the kind of situations we were told it would prevent. What more evidence is needed that it doesn't work? It only serves to create better TV, which to be quite honest, is all the powers that be care about.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: blue-white on November 29, 2017, 11:29:54 AM
I still stay wit my opinion, that VAR in general is the right way. Simply because when i remember the derby, without VAR, we would not have got a penalty for us. It was a classy situation - ref doesn't see it - video shows it different - clear decision.

So VAR in 100% situations is the right way. but not useful for situations like vs. Fiorentina.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 29, 2017, 11:42:23 AM
So VAR in 100% situations is the right way.

I agree with that, but I also think that's never going to happen. That's what is meant to be happening, and it's not. Giving referees VAR and asking them to use it sparingly is like letting a child open their Christmas present and asking them to have their breakfast before they play with their new toy.

They are talking about making football games 60 minutes long and having the clock stop when the ball goes out of play. I don't think many would accept that today, but expose everyone to VAR for 4 or 5 seasons, and they'll be begging for it. And I think that's the bigger picture.

I've heard so many people say VAR needs to work like the tennis 'challenge' system with the manager being allowed to challenge certain calls. While it is widely seen as a positive for tennis, what is maybe less spoken about is the fact no one watches tennis anymore because a Nadal match in a Grand Slam could put people to sleep and now they want to introduce new things and change old rules to speed up tennis games - they want it to be more TV-friendly.

I'm not saying VAR can't work - I'm saying with VAR in place, the game has to change. Significantly so. Otherwise people will turn off. People are turning off the NFL too and partly because even with all the technology, fans feel their team is being screwed over. There's other reasons, but we'll not get into those!
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Sile on November 29, 2017, 12:15:53 PM
Look at it this way, if the play was waved on would any of the Fiorentina players and staff make a claim for a penalty while having a straight face? No, because they would be laughed at.

This decision hasn't benefited Fiorentina as much as it hurt us and benefited merda, napoli and rube.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: blue_sky on November 29, 2017, 12:19:20 PM
I think VAR eliminate the interesting football in general which a controversy. With VAR, no body will talk to Maradona God hand if it was applied that time.

But for sure, Football is still football, we have another controversy even with VAR like we discussed.

So for the one giving idea implemented VAR in Seri A, I say it that's it doesn't make any different and it's interesting actually
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: blue-white on November 29, 2017, 12:47:10 PM
The reason why i'm for VAr is, when i take that derby - if there would not have been VAR, ALL Lazio fans would speak about a not given penalty - and because of that non given penalty, Lazio was not able to change that game.
Because of VAR, we got that handball penalty, and we saw that Lazio was not able to turn that game.

Without VAR, we are going back into a game where too many important decisions would be wrong decisions.
I speak about clear offside goals, clear handball in penalty area, clear footballs behind the goal line and the ref doesn't give that goal.
Football is all about the money...

There was once Irland vs France ... you remember? ... sure, you do... :vcool: Now i brought back the bad memories ... hahahaha.... :fingerup: :razz:
With VAR, Ireland would have qualified.

Important decision should not be wrong decisions. So, if they go out with the rule, that VAR will only be used for goal/or not goal, or things like De Rossi did last weekend, or offside goals - i would already be happy.
If it's too tricky to judge 100% fouls, then keep that out of the VAR rules. But completely without VAR - i would not prefer this.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 29, 2017, 01:00:44 PM
The reason why i'm for VAr is, when i take that derby - if there would not have been VAR, ALL Lazio fans would speak about a not given penalty - and because of that non given penalty, Lazio was not able to change that game.
Because of VAR, we got that handball penalty, and we saw that Lazio was not able to turn that game.

Without VAR, we are going back into a game where too many important decisions would be wrong decisions.
I speak about clear offside goals, clear handball in penalty area, clear footballs behind the goal line and the ref doesn't give that goal.
Football is all about the money...

There was once Irland vs France ... you remember? ... sure, you do... :vcool: Now i brought back the bad memories ... hahahaha.... :fingerup: :razz:
With VAR, Ireland would have qualified.

There is no guarantee VAR would've been used on the Henry handball, and even though VAR was used to good effect in the Derby in one situation, that was not the situation we ended up talking about and much of that discussion centred on VAR not being used.

I understand your point - if we use VAR to correct very obvious errors, then it clears up controversies. Simple logic. Unfortunately, there were many people who instead of arguing that VAR should be used less are actually arguing that it should be used more. I see more people arguing VAR should've been used on the Parolo incident than there are people arguing it shouldn't have been used on the Caicedo penalty call.

In an ideal world, we'd be in agreement. But this isn't the ideal world. Not everyone is as straight-forward or as clear in their own mind as you are. And referees certainly are not!
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: stefano_40 on November 29, 2017, 02:47:23 PM
The reason why i'm for VAr is, when i take that derby - if there would not have been VAR, ALL Lazio fans would speak about a not given penalty - and because of that non given penalty, Lazio was not able to change that game.
Because of VAR, we got that handball penalty, and we saw that Lazio was not able to turn that game.

Without VAR, we are going back into a game where too many important decisions would be wrong decisions.
I speak about clear offside goals, clear handball in penalty area, clear footballs behind the goal line and the ref doesn't give that goal.
Football is all about the money...

There was once Irland vs France ... you remember? ... sure, you do... :vcool: Now i brought back the bad memories ... hahahaha.... :fingerup: :razz:
With VAR, Ireland would have qualified.

Important decision should not be wrong decisions. So, if they go out with the rule, that VAR will only be used for goal/or not goal, or things like De Rossi did last weekend, or offside goals - i would already be happy.
If it's too tricky to judge 100% fouls, then keep that out of the VAR rules. But completely without VAR - i would not prefer this.

In theory, just using it for "big decisions" sounds great. But it is allowing referees to be too pedantic. I don't really see the problem with having a challenge or two per game per team that they can use to challenge anything that happens with VAR. The catch being that once you use the two challenges, you get no more. This way, the team initiates VAR, not the ref, and only challenges calls that they feel are actually worthwhile. Could be better this way?

In general though, I'm a big fan of context, and that's where I feel that VAR has failed in football so far. When you can review an incident numerous times, the decision process has to be less black and white than simply just asking "Was there any amount of contact in the box? " and "did the attacker fall as a result of this?".  Trajectory of the ball, the involved player's body positions, involved player's approach to the incident and position of other players around the incident are just a few other things that help to bring the decision into context.

I think we've seen the two extremes of VAR in the past two Serie A games. One decision that was a clear as day penalty awarded after not initially being awarded, and one bullshit penalty being awarded after not initially being awarded. I was very much for VAR at the start, but now after a few months, I'm against it. It has to work 99% of the time to be worthwhile. At the moment, it is causing as much controversy as just leaving decisions up to the referee based on seeing the incident once, so what's the point?

Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: edo_shehb on November 29, 2017, 03:00:50 PM
The reason why i'm for VAr is, when i take that derby - if there would not have been VAR, ALL Lazio fans would speak about a not given penalty - and because of that non given penalty, Lazio was not able to change that game.
Because of VAR, we got that handball penalty, and we saw that Lazio was not able to turn that game.

Without VAR, we are going back into a game where too many important decisions would be wrong decisions.
I speak about clear offside goals, clear handball in penalty area, clear footballs behind the goal line and the ref doesn't give that goal.
Football is all about the money...

There was once Irland vs France ... you remember? ... sure, you do... :vcool: Now i brought back the bad memories ... hahahaha.... :fingerup: :razz:
With VAR, Ireland would have qualified.

Important decision should not be wrong decisions. So, if they go out with the rule, that VAR will only be used for goal/or not goal, or things like De Rossi did last weekend, or offside goals - i would already be happy.
If it's too tricky to judge 100% fouls, then keep that out of the VAR rules. But completely without VAR - i would not prefer this.

I'm a big fan of context, and that's where VAR has failed in football so far. When you can review an incident numerous times, the decision process has to be less black and white than simply just asking "Was there any amount of contact in the box? " and "did the attacker fall as a result of this?".  Trajectory of the ball, the involved player's body positions, involved player's approach to the incident and position of other players around the incident are just a few other things that help to bring the decision into context.

I think we've seen the two extremes of VAR in the past two Serie A games. One decision that was a clear as day penalty awarded after not initially being awarded, and one bullshit penalty being awarded after not initially being awarded. I was very much for VAR at the start, but now after a few months, I'm against it. It has to work 99% of the time to be worthwhile. At the moment, it is causing as much controversy as just leaving decisions up to the referee based on seeing the incident once, so what's the point?

I wholeheartedly agree that VAR should clarify more rather making more controversy

which bring me back to my earlier question, regarding Caicedo incident, was it blown up as much out there (in Italy at least) or it is just us?

I already google for more sources / news about this but found nothing and it make me bit worry ...... :whistle:
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: stefano_40 on November 29, 2017, 03:07:40 PM
The reason why i'm for VAr is, when i take that derby - if there would not have been VAR, ALL Lazio fans would speak about a not given penalty - and because of that non given penalty, Lazio was not able to change that game.
Because of VAR, we got that handball penalty, and we saw that Lazio was not able to turn that game.

Without VAR, we are going back into a game where too many important decisions would be wrong decisions.
I speak about clear offside goals, clear handball in penalty area, clear footballs behind the goal line and the ref doesn't give that goal.
Football is all about the money...

There was once Irland vs France ... you remember? ... sure, you do... :vcool: Now i brought back the bad memories ... hahahaha.... :fingerup: :razz:
With VAR, Ireland would have qualified.

Important decision should not be wrong decisions. So, if they go out with the rule, that VAR will only be used for goal/or not goal, or things like De Rossi did last weekend, or offside goals - i would already be happy.
If it's too tricky to judge 100% fouls, then keep that out of the VAR rules. But completely without VAR - i would not prefer this.

I'm a big fan of context, and that's where VAR has failed in football so far. When you can review an incident numerous times, the decision process has to be less black and white than simply just asking "Was there any amount of contact in the box? " and "did the attacker fall as a result of this?".  Trajectory of the ball, the involved player's body positions, involved player's approach to the incident and position of other players around the incident are just a few other things that help to bring the decision into context.

I think we've seen the two extremes of VAR in the past two Serie A games. One decision that was a clear as day penalty awarded after not initially being awarded, and one bullshit penalty being awarded after not initially being awarded. I was very much for VAR at the start, but now after a few months, I'm against it. It has to work 99% of the time to be worthwhile. At the moment, it is causing as much controversy as just leaving decisions up to the referee based on seeing the incident once, so what's the point?

I wholeheartedly agree that VAR should clarify more rather making more controversy

which bring me back to my earlier question, regarding Caicedo incident, was it blown up as much out there (in Italy at least) or it is just us?

I already google for more sources / news about this but found nothing and it make me bit worry ...... :whistle:

I don't think you're going to get much coverage on an incident like that unless you're playing in the world cup, or in the latter stages of the Champions League etc. I'm sure in a parallel universe, there are forums of other teams filled with similar posts.

For example, even the decisive incident between Switzerland and Northern Ireland in the recent WCQ got very little coverage, and even I only heard of it because I am from Ireland. Northern Irish friends were disgusted. Nobody else cared. But it was still an important, and incorrect, call.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Dakiller961 on November 29, 2017, 03:20:51 PM
I understand your point - if we use VAR to correct very obvious errors, then it clears up controversies. Simple logic. Unfortunately, there were many people who instead of arguing that VAR should be used less are actually arguing that it should be used more. I see more people arguing VAR should've been used on the Parolo incident than there are people arguing it shouldn't have been used on the Caicedo penalty call.

What I am arguing personally is either VAR be used on all controversial decisions or not.
I Cannot understand why a referee be so stubborn not to accept to go back to VAR on the parole incident when obviously the captain and parolo asked him to, what did he have to lose ? hence the feeling of match fixing and calciopoli goes back in mind
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 29, 2017, 03:37:41 PM
What I am arguing personally is either VAR be used on all controversial decisions or not.
I Cannot understand why a referee be so stubborn not to accept to go back to VAR on the parole incident when obviously the captain and parolo asked him to, what did he have to lose ? hence the feeling of match fixing and calciopoli goes back in mind

Massa is not supposed to be going to VAR every time there's an incident in the box and it's not even clear that Massa saw the Parolo incident as taking place in the box since the challenge itself appeared to be outside the box (in which case, VAR isn't allowed to be used). Massa didn't call for VAR to be used on the Caicedo 'foul' either. It was Fabbri.

I think the real issue is that the Caicedo 'foul' went to VAR and the decision was changed - that is indeed odd and should be explained - but that whole aspect of the debate got lost. And generating conspiracy theories doesn't help either in my opinion because for me, there's clearly no conspiracy, but there should be question marks surrounding Massa and Fabbri's competence as Serie A referees.

I already google for more sources / news about this but found nothing and it make me bit worry ...... :whistle:

The wider public don't care about Lazio and Fiorentina. So the media only discuss it if it's in their interest to do so. For most outlets, there were bigger games with storylines that will capture the attention of the masses (De Rossi, for example).

Corriere dello Sport barely referenced the incident and basically said it was a penalty, as I'd expect a Roman newspaper where most of the readers are inevitably 1927 supporters to argue.

In Florence, this was a stonewall penalty. While Lazio as a club tweet out how VAR is supposed to be used, Fiorentina as a club are defiant - it was a penalty.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Dakiller961 on November 29, 2017, 03:42:17 PM
I think we've seen the two extremes of VAR in the past two Serie A games. One decision that was a clear as day penalty awarded after not initially being awarded, and one bullshit penalty being awarded after not initially being awarded. I was very much for VAR at the start, but now after a few months, I'm against it. It has to work 99% of the time to be worthwhile. At the moment, it is causing as much controversy as just leaving decisions up to the referee based on seeing the incident once, so what's the point?

completely agree.

I think VAR should be 100% machined, maybe through AI technology because
Artificial intelligence would be neutral , it would take into consideration all factors, ball trajectory, both players trajectory and positioning, contact, speed, etc... and give a decision based on a algorithm which no one can refute. it would also take the 5th referee job and it would indicate directly to the ground referee the situation directly.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: edo_shehb on November 30, 2017, 03:05:22 AM
What I am arguing personally is either VAR be used on all controversial decisions or not.
I Cannot understand why a referee be so stubborn not to accept to go back to VAR on the parole incident when obviously the captain and parolo asked him to, what did he have to lose ? hence the feeling of match fixing and calciopoli goes back in mind

Massa is not supposed to be going to VAR every time there's an incident in the box and it's not even clear that Massa saw the Parolo incident as taking place in the box since the challenge itself appeared to be outside the box (in which case, VAR isn't allowed to be used). Massa didn't call for VAR to be used on the Caicedo 'foul' either. It was Fabbri.

I think the real issue is that the Caicedo 'foul' went to VAR and the decision was changed - that is indeed odd and should be explained - but that whole aspect of the debate got lost. And generating conspiracy theories doesn't help either in my opinion because for me, there's clearly no conspiracy, but there should be question marks surrounding Massa and Fabbri's competence as Serie A referees.

I already google for more sources / news about this but found nothing and it make me bit worry ...... :whistle:

The wider public don't care about Lazio and Fiorentina. So the media only discuss it if it's in their interest to do so. For most outlets, there were bigger games with storylines that will capture the attention of the masses (De Rossi, for example).

Corriere dello Sport barely referenced the incident and basically said it was a penalty, as I'd expect a Roman newspaper where most of the readers are inevitably 1927 supporters to argue.

In Florence, this was a stonewall penalty. While Lazio as a club tweet out how VAR is supposed to be used, Fiorentina as a club are defiant - it was a penalty.

perhaps I got my question wrong, I'm not asking bout our games but the controversy (according to Lazio fans at least) surrounding VAR in the games

and apparently nobody else cares, so it wasnt that much of controversy, or at least not yet
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Cathal on November 30, 2017, 08:25:33 AM
perhaps I got my question wrong, I'm not asking bout our games but the controversy (according to Lazio fans at least) surrounding VAR in the games

Sorry, I can't work out what you're asking  :razz: The first time, it sounded like you were referring specifically to the Caicedo incident, now you are saying you're not talking about our games, but 'the' games? What games?  :supsmile:
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: drazvan on November 30, 2017, 11:38:05 AM
Let's face it - we played 2 poor games in a row. The derby and Fiorentina. Three if we add the Vitesse game. We need to wake up. We have another tough game ahead of us as Sampdoria is playing better than us at the moment. We should stop talking about VAR. We need focus to get something out of this one.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Giolazio on November 30, 2017, 03:21:33 PM
Let's face it - we played 2 poor games in a row. The derby and Fiorentina. Three if we add the Vitesse game. We need to wake up. We have another tough game ahead of us as Sampdoria is playing better than us at the moment. We should stop talking about VAR. We need focus to get something out of this one.

Absolutley. Let the fans talk about VAR. I'd be very concerned if the players had it in their heads, Inzaghi has to tell them to simply play better.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: Hadi Van Der Vaart on November 30, 2017, 03:58:53 PM
Let's face it - we played 2 poor games in a row. The derby and Fiorentina. Three if we add the Vitesse game. We need to wake up. We have another tough game ahead of us as Sampdoria is playing better than us at the moment. We should stop talking about VAR. We need focus to get something out of this one.

Absolutley. Let the fans talk about VAR. I'd be very concerned if the players had it in their heads, Inzaghi has to tell them to simply play better.

That thing was bothering the players actually, Strakosha, Bastos even Leiva complained about that non existent penalty on their social media. But you're right, they should focus on their game now.
Title: Re: Serie A : SS Lazio - AC Fiorentina 1-1 , 25/11/2017
Post by: edo_shehb on December 01, 2017, 07:07:26 AM
perhaps I got my question wrong, I'm not asking bout our games but the controversy (according to Lazio fans at least) surrounding VAR in the games

Sorry, I can't work out what you're asking  :razz: The first time, it sounded like you were referring specifically to the Caicedo incident, now you are saying you're not talking about our games, but 'the' games? What games?  :supsmile:

at first I had this urgency to clarify myself more, but then the moment has passed so let just move along to the next games

the season still long anyway, we might as well have another VAR incident  :fingerup: