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La SS LAZIO => MATCHES => Topic started by: Evesto on February 10, 2018, 04:15:36 PM

Title: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Evesto on February 10, 2018, 04:15:36 PM
SSC Napoli - SS Lazio  4-1

(http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2018/02/1662146_Napoli.jpg)(http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2018/02/1662145_SS_Lazio.jpg)

*3' De Vrij (Immobile)
*43' Callejon (Jorginho)
*54' Wallace (o.g.)
*56' Zielinski (Mario Rui)
*73' Mertens (Zielinski)

subs: Zielinski (Allan), Maggio (Callejon), Rog (Hamsik)
subs: Lukaku (Lulic), Caicedo (Luis Alberto), Nani (Leiva)

highlights:
http://www.goalsarena.org/en/video/italy-serie-a/10-02-2018-ssc-napoli-lazio.html (http://www.goalsarena.org/en/video/italy-serie-a/10-02-2018-ssc-napoli-lazio.html)

positional & situational reports:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1225375/MatchReport/Italy-Serie-A-2017-2018-Napoli-Lazio (https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1225375/MatchReport/Italy-Serie-A-2017-2018-Napoli-Lazio)
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Sile on February 10, 2018, 10:48:36 PM
Things were going relatively well and it all just fell apart within 12 minutes of 2nd half.
Familiar story, there has to be a reason as to why we concede so much immediately after the break.
Nothing much else to say
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on February 10, 2018, 10:48:47 PM
Disgusting performance from our defence. I really don't know what to say anymore because it's been said so many times.

It was painful watching our defenders lose the Napoli forwards constantly when high balls were played over our defence..or our defenders frantically trying to pull an offside trap while 2-3 players running forward and one running backwards to keep track of an opponent.

I'm thinking what we're going through right now is why we won't play Champions League next season. The only way we get back on track is if Ciro finds his old form and starts banging in goals again. We do not have the defence to end in top 4 and I'd start to worry about top 6 as well if I were you.

Oh god how I miss Dias and Biava. Those two players knew how to defend.

Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Rizmo on February 10, 2018, 10:50:06 PM
Ciro will be back to banging in goals sooner rather then later. Last season he had a month or so goalless but came back. No worries.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 10, 2018, 10:51:02 PM
inzaghi's stuborness again cost us 3 points, it was clear that after 45 minutes of hard pressing, the midfield was exhausted and could no longer keep up with napoli's game. why field wallace when you have caceres???you have nani on the bench - virtualy the most experienced player in our squad and you keep him for a sub??


2 mistakes by lulic - 2 goals


Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Quintus on February 10, 2018, 10:51:20 PM
I'm so pissed off tonight... The same match than in September. One half time good and then Napoli Walk on our team. And Inzaghi don't succeed in finding his big one between Bastos, Caceres, Patric and the Star Wallace... And i'm worried because I see a really tired Lazio...
Let's focus on our good first half and Let's do a place at the Europa League.

Poor evening, I have a headache mates....
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Delta on February 10, 2018, 10:57:40 PM
Situation is really bad when your goalkeeper picks ball out of net four times and still is probably only option for man of the match  :wuzz:
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Evesto on February 10, 2018, 10:58:26 PM
One has to look to from 12th spot in Serie to find teams who concede more goals then us.
Hard to claim then there's not problem with defenders. 
Our midfield and attack bring Lazio among the top 3 scoring teams in Serie A and our defence brings us down to the bottom half of the table.
Don't think there's any other team in Europe who is looking that way.

Reason?   
Obviously in the signing department.  Like Ilsempre said during the game, if we had exprienced Serie A cb's from lower ranked team we'd be better and that's most likely true.
But that brings us back to discussions already had, they simply don't sign for Lazio.  They either stay at the lower teams or fill the bench of the richer clubs.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on February 10, 2018, 11:01:28 PM
Yeah at this point I'd take a Biava or even a Stendardo and send Wallace and Bastos packing.

I cannot articulate how badly I want to see some of our defenders leave next summer. Please make it happen, completely reshape our defence. The club has to act on this problem now.

I miss those no nonsense oldschool CBs that the lesser teams like to have. The ones we always have trouble breaking through. I don't give a shit anymore if our CBs can run forward with the ball or even if they are good at passing it around..I never understand that part of modern football where defenders now act as midfielders and old school defenders are dying out.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 10, 2018, 11:03:42 PM
One has to look to from 12th spot in Serie to find teams who concede more goals then us.
Hard to claim then there's not problem with defenders. 
Our midfield and attack bring Lazio among the top 3 scoring teams in Serie A and our defence brings us down to the bottom half of the table.
Don't think there's any other team in Europe who is looking that way.

Reason?   
Obviously in the signing department.  Like Ilsempre said during the game, if we had exprienced Serie A cb's from lower ranked team we'd be better and that's most likely true.
But that brings us back to discussions already had, they simply don't sign for Lazio.  They either stay at the lower teams or fill the bench of the richer clubs.

the right question is why is caceres not playing?
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: badboyyy on February 10, 2018, 11:05:04 PM
But guys our midfield created all three goals for Napoli, we just lost all balls in midfield. Especially SMS and Lulic, then Napoli just quick pass forward and bang one aftwr another  :ohnoo:
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Sile on February 10, 2018, 11:06:11 PM
I still can't understand how Wallace managed to fail so spectacularly.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on February 10, 2018, 11:08:03 PM
I still can't understand how Wallace managed to fail so spectacularly.

There's some questions we may never find the answer to

- Are we alone in the universe?
- What do women want?
- How can the Lazio defenders such so much?

Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Danes on February 10, 2018, 11:10:00 PM
First half was even. Maybe we were a bit better. Second half they were all over us. They upped the tempo and even though they were lucky with the 2-1 and 3-1 goals their victory is fully deserved. I am annoyed with all of Inzaghis subs. Not one of them made any difference and he took key players off. And Inzaghi must be pulling his hair having to choose between Bastos, Wallace and Caceres for De Vrijs partner. We have a decent eleven but we simply haven't got enough quality on the bench.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Hadi Van Der Vaart on February 10, 2018, 11:10:36 PM
I think we played bad the whole game, not only in 2nd half. After we scored, we just sit back n waited them to punish us. I'm afraid Anderson's issue last week distract the harmony in the team. I know our performance became bad since weeks ago, but tonight is the worst. Just look at Ciro, I dont know if he isnt fit or had another problem, but I feel like having another guy upfront. He didnt run n ruthless as usual. Same with the others, everybody seemed frustated, only few players showed determination. Probably we need to do ritiro after this, everyone must be on the same page again.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: inhocsignovinces on February 10, 2018, 11:10:46 PM
I turn 28 tomorrow and my only wish was to see Lazio beat Napoli.

We all should have been glory hunters.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Boksic on February 10, 2018, 11:13:45 PM
One has to look to from 12th spot in Serie to find teams who concede more goals then us.
Hard to claim then there's not problem with defenders. 
Our midfield and attack bring Lazio among the top 3 scoring teams in Serie A and our defence brings us down to the bottom half of the table.
Don't think there's any other team in Europe who is looking that way.

Reason?   
Obviously in the signing department.  Like Ilsempre said during the game, if we had exprienced Serie A cb's from lower ranked team we'd be better and that's most likely true.
But that brings us back to discussions already had, they simply don't sign for Lazio.  They either stay at the lower teams or fill the bench of the richer clubs.

Didn't we do exactly that by signing Caceres from Verona? This has to go on Inzaghi for the 2nd game in a row, he didn't adapt. He can't act when we're being overwhelmed. Too much emphassis is being placed on the RCB position, why can't all defenders function there? To me it's pretty obvious, Marusic is not supporting or covering at all, this barely happened when Basta was first choice and its about time that Marusic is benched. Inzaghi is always flipping from conservative to all out which is loosing us points, we need him to use his mind and adapt in time and not just go all out when the match is lost, we shouldnt have lost to Genoa if Inzaghi did the right choises and we wouldn't have been battered today had Inzaghi took measures to neutralize Insigne, yet now we have a deflated team out of confidence and in need of a miracle to save this season. Simone needs to wake the **** up.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Evesto on February 10, 2018, 11:14:42 PM
But guys our midfield created all three goals for Napoli, we just lost all balls in midfield. Especially SMS and Lulic, then Napoli just quick pass forward and bang one aftwr another  :ohnoo:

Truth i this, only Wallace made a real error by tapping in unnecessary as Strakosha was getting it.
Strakosha by the way who imo had a good night and saved us from a 5-1 or 6-1 at least.

2 goals on Lulic' his name, the 3rd one was a really ennoying deflection otherwise Strakosha would have simply been picking up that ball.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Hadi Van Der Vaart on February 10, 2018, 11:15:14 PM
I turn 28 tomorrow and my only wish was to see Lazio beat Napoli.

We all should have been glory hunters.

It's ashame you havent made a wish yet n didnt get what you wished for, but since it's already "tomorow" here, Happy Birthday!!
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Crni Đorđe on February 10, 2018, 11:15:40 PM
Two stupidities followed by one lucky shot and all destroyed from good first 43 minutes.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Evesto on February 10, 2018, 11:18:43 PM
One has to look to from 12th spot in Serie to find teams who concede more goals then us.
Hard to claim then there's not problem with defenders. 
Our midfield and attack bring Lazio among the top 3 scoring teams in Serie A and our defence brings us down to the bottom half of the table.
Don't think there's any other team in Europe who is looking that way.

Reason?   
Obviously in the signing department.  Like Ilsempre said during the game, if we had exprienced Serie A cb's from lower ranked team we'd be better and that's most likely true.
But that brings us back to discussions already had, they simply don't sign for Lazio.  They either stay at the lower teams or fill the bench of the richer clubs.

Didn't we do exactly that by signing Caceres from Verona? This has to go on Inzaghi for the 2nd game in a row, he didn't adapt. He can't act when we're being overwhelmed. Too much emphassis is being placed on the RCB position, why can't all defenders function there? To me it's pretty obvious, Marusic is not supporting or covering at all, this barely happened when Basta was first choice and its about time that Marusic is benched. Inzaghi is always flipping from conservative to all out which is loosing us points, we need him to use his mind and adapt in time and not just go all out when the match is lost, we shouldnt have lost to Genoa if Inzaghi did the right choises and we wouldn't have been battered today had Inzaghi took measures to neutralize Insigne, yet now we have a deflated team out of confidence and in need of a miracle to save this season. Simone needs to wake the **** up.

Caceres didn't get the usual way.  He got here like Immobile did, via a sideroute.  Both went abroad an failed.  Ciro came directly to us after a few teams abroad, Caceres just made a sidestep with Verona.

If they wouldn't have gone abroad they wouldn't have signed for Lazio.

------------------

I agree about that aspect on Inzaghi.  In every game that has gone wrong this season he made some very arguable subs, and he keeps on doing it.  I don't know what he's hoping to happen each time.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Bobbi on February 10, 2018, 11:19:06 PM
A very tough game to watch.

We started off very well I thought, got an early goal, and threatened a few times with good through balls and confident passing. A real shame that we did not push harder for a second goal. In saying that, Napoli remained calm and composed and waited for their chance. We were very good up until Callejon's goal. That was sickening, just before half time and such a simple goal, we lost focus for a split second a paid dearly for that.

In the second half, they upped the tempo and put us under real pressure. Their midfield was so organised and flowed well linking up to their attackers so it was sadly only a question of when they will score. Wallace was a nightmare all game long and his own goal was ridiculous. No real pressure on him and Strakosha was diving for what would have been such a simple pick up. I would really like to know if Strakosha yelled out to claim the ball or not. Regardless, I feel that Wallace should have been able to direct the ball out for a corner kick and especially so as he did not have an attacker on him. Horrific goal to concede. From there on, I had a horrible feeling we would concede more. The deflected goal hurt us as well. Didn't deserve that. And then Mertens rounded it off.

The sub choices by Inzaghi were questionable. I understand Lukaku coming on but Nani and Caicedo for Luis Alberto and especially Leiva, I still don't get. Leiva and Parolo were the only ones in midfield actually working hard today. Caicedo I like and understand the logic but Nani? I hope his loan is not extended or he isn't bought and that he goes back to Valencia. For an older and experienced player, he really has not done much for us when given the chance against bigger teams IMO.

I hate Napoli and seeing those clowns celebrate as if they won the Scudetto was too much. I really hope Juve smash them in Turin and claim the title, that would be sweet.

For me, and like most of us, it is clear that our RCB position is our biggest issue. Seeing Wallace and Bastos given chance after chance after poor performance after poor performance really gets to me. If the club could afford better defenders, then these guys would be out of here quickly. I want to see Inzaghi give Caceres a good run in the first XI now, or at least give Luiz Felipe more game time.

Our LWB and RWB would ideally also do with upgrades but I know that is pushing it. Sadly it is clear that Lulic is struggling this season and we can't rely on our Capitano for too much longer. The likes of Lukaku and Marusic are promising but realistically are not regular first XI material in my honest opinion.

Another worrying issue for me is our attack force have slowed down over the past month few weeks. The link up play between Ciro, SMS and Luis Alberto is not functioning as well as it was before Christmas. I am hoping that in our next game against Verona we can put the past few weeks behind, move on and get a solid win at home against them.


Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on February 10, 2018, 11:29:15 PM
I created a poll about our defence and whether it's time Inzaghi switches things around

http://forum.lazioland.com//index.php/topic,3146.msg215495/topicseen.html#msg215495 (http://forum.lazioland.com//index.php/topic,3146.msg215495/topicseen.html#msg215495)
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Sile on February 10, 2018, 11:37:35 PM
At least on a positive note, SMS showed some magic out there. Leiva is still playing very well, Radu is solid, Strakosha is also maintaining a decent playing level. Parolo was partly invisible today, shame about that header. DV brings us bad luck when he scores against napoli :(
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 10, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
cant help it, but still thinking this week could have been avoided by some rotation and keeping the players fresh.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Boksic on February 10, 2018, 11:50:31 PM
cant help it, but still thinking this week could have been avoided by some rotation and keeping the players fresh.

I don't see this issue as players being tired. Lulic shouldn't be tired, yet he screwed up, Wallace should be fine yet he did am own goal. Same goes for Marusic. The once who should be tired like Radu, Parolo and Leiva are the ones performing day in day out.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Lazio Forever on February 10, 2018, 11:52:13 PM
Tired?????
Really?
Cmon, we know its not that.
Inzaghi and his defencive choices are to blame.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 10, 2018, 11:59:35 PM
cant help it, but still thinking this week could have been avoided by some rotation and keeping the players fresh.

I don't see this issue as players being tired. Lulic shouldn't be tired, yet he screwed up, Wallace should be fine yet he did am own goal. Same goes for Marusic. The once who should be tired like Radu, Parolo and Leiva are the ones performing day in day out.

i already said my opinion about lulic

but the midfield is the most important part of this team and we have only 3 starters there, which had absolutely no rest, it was obvious we coulnd't press napoli anymore after the 50th minute and therefore we lost the game
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Boksic on February 11, 2018, 12:18:20 AM
cant help it, but still thinking this week could have been avoided by some rotation and keeping the players fresh.

I don't see this issue as players being tired. Lulic shouldn't be tired, yet he screwed up, Wallace should be fine yet he did am own goal. Same goes for Marusic. The once who should be tired like Radu, Parolo and Leiva are the ones performing day in day out.

i already said my opinion about lulic

but the midfield is the most important part of this team and we have only 3 starters there, which had absolutely no rest, it was obvious we coulnd't press napoli anymore after the 50th minute and therefore we lost the game

I don't think the issue was with the CMs, we couldn't cope with attacks coming from the flanks, Radu and Wallace were too exposed. I think both Leiva and Parolo did a good job and Milinkovic was owning them in the first half. He lost his head in the 2nd half, Lulic was totally off and his lack of concentration cost us big time and Wallace went nuts thats why we lost the match. One individual and the rest its all mental.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: lazioserbia on February 11, 2018, 12:27:11 AM
We were the better team until they scored twice from nothing and broke the game. If they conceded two goals like we did the score would be much different.

Apart from Wallace reminding us all what it used to be like watching Hoedt play, the team fought well.

Forza Lazio  :offlag:
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 11, 2018, 12:45:21 AM
cant help it, but still thinking this week could have been avoided by some rotation and keeping the players fresh.

I don't see this issue as players being tired. Lulic shouldn't be tired, yet he screwed up, Wallace should be fine yet he did am own goal. Same goes for Marusic. The once who should be tired like Radu, Parolo and Leiva are the ones performing day in day out.

i already said my opinion about lulic

but the midfield is the most important part of this team and we have only 3 starters there, which had absolutely no rest, it was obvious we coulnd't press napoli anymore after the 50th minute and therefore we lost the game

I don't think the issue was with the CMs, we couldn't cope with attacks coming from the flanks, Radu and Wallace were too exposed. I think both Leiva and Parolo did a good job and Milinkovic was owning them in the first half. He lost his head in the 2nd half, Lulic was totally off and his lack of concentration cost us big time and Wallace went nuts thats why we lost the match. One individual and the rest its all mental.

their midfield was having a training day after the 60th minute, no  pressure whatsoever
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: phantomm1976 on February 11, 2018, 06:00:14 AM
 Very good first half, we dominate, we know what we want...one mistake and they score easy goal.
 Even in first half we saw invisible Parolo and LA in FA style(but for some strange reasons there is a silence about that).
 Second half : Wallace show.
 Why Wallace  instead Caceres-Bastos ?!
 Why Leiva out ?
 Why Parolo in field until end ?
 Whats happen in dressing room ?- because we saw different team in second half
 Napoli win, but they style is so bored (pressure on referee) from first minute....I cant believe that I want Juve to win scudeto.
 They didnt win-simply-we lose.
 Inzaghi should ask himself after three defeats in row some questions :
 -3511
 -Sacrifice FA tactically or in other way
 -Defense-individual errors ? do he have his part of guilty
 etc
  :offlag:
 
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: blue_sky on February 11, 2018, 06:30:56 AM
First half:
-.We did a good race until Lulic was not in line with others defenders for offside trap.
-. If only Ciro, Parolo and LA is more cynical, we could get 2 goal
-. Nice played by our midfielder especially SMS. He job to press Jorginho was successful so Napoli cannot make any  long passed or dribble ball smoothly.
Second half:
-. Lulic started losing his grip. He cannot manage left flank so opponent penetrate easily end then we were exploited. The rest we know what happened.
-. Inzaghi was betting to draw Leiva to get more attack but the price was too high that we lost in midfielder. Credit to Sarri that he changed Hamsik for Zielinsky who profile is a box to box midfielder with good passing

A summary:
Since we left winter transfer market with no reinforcement for 35x especially in right or left flank, we should consider changing form. 433 with Lulic on upfront 3 with limited time playing and FA instead of LA. LA is out of perform recently
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Secret_Samadhi on February 11, 2018, 07:26:20 AM
I still can't get pass the Genova loss, let alone this one.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: hamid on February 11, 2018, 09:06:16 AM
We were the better team until they scored twice from nothing and broke the game.


Not really. From the first minute of second half, they dominated the game and created dangerous opportunities in front of our goal. Wallace did a silly mistake, but it was simply just because our defence was under immense pressure.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 11, 2018, 10:29:05 AM
I don't understand this forum sometimes.

We didn't play particularly well in the first half. One of the things that was there to be exploited was Napoli's makeshift backline and it took three minutes for us to take advantage of that chaos. It's being made out as if we could've been 3 or 4 goals up at HT, but I didn't see those chances. It was disappointing not to kick on with an early lead.

It is being made out that Napoli won because our defence committed typical individual errors which merits their sales in the summer. Really? It was a lack of organisation at the back.

We tried to play an offside trap and it didn't work at any point. That's not Lulic being an idiot but the team not being drilled adequately, which I guess is to be expected when you play more often than everyone else and don't play the same team two games running. Wallace's error is very much individual but it also shows a lack of confidence in and cohesion with Strakosha. Even on the fourth goal, while Radu inexplicably watches Mertens glide past him to score, Strakosha wasn't decisive and didn't charge of his line like he commands the defence.

So for me, this isn't a case of 'Wallace is crap, please leave' but 'our defence is all over the place, sort it out Simone'. Radu was at least as bad, if not much worse, than Wallace last night. Caceres was done on pace by Laxalt midweek so I don't buy into the idea that if he was out there marking Insigne, we could've conceded three goals less and come away with a point. Same for Bastos... if you've watched him, I don't know how you can want him to start.

This is the first game that has made me consider that we're sinking into our usual February ways. Not because of three consecutive losses - it's not been the easiest run of games, after all - but the manner of defeat. Inzaghi said it himself last night; that wasn't a team out there.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Stefano6 on February 11, 2018, 10:51:22 AM
You must be new here Cathal.. here we dont post thought out impressions, we pick a player we currently dislike or who was nearest to the goalscorer and we pin the loss on him  :twinkle: :razz:
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 11, 2018, 10:56:30 AM
You must be new here Cathal.. here we dont post thought out impressions, we pick a player we currently dislike or who was nearest to the goalscorer and we pin the loss on him  :twinkle: :razz:

 :supsmile:

I know what kind of reaction to expect, but I read through 100+ pages and didn't feel anyone was talking much sense. And I'd hold up my hands and say I must be the crazy one, except I haven't found two people who agree with each other yet.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Akha on February 11, 2018, 11:19:06 AM
We tried to play an offside trap and it didn't work at any point.

Agreed, every time a cross came over our defenders I didn't feel confident about it, the same with balls rebound with headers, because there was always a Napoli player to collect them. And the last thirty minutes were a training session. Very weak performance in a negative period of games, hopefully the last of such.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: moody on February 11, 2018, 11:36:16 AM
I can't bear the pain of consecutive defeats, so I didn't watch the replays. Actually I couldn't bear the defeat I turned off the game when we conceded the 4th goal. Though I agree to some extent that the defense lacks cohesion, as always even with Bastos missing his man, plus some individual errors it's all doomed.

First half was good in the sense we can retain some possession and score a lucky goal, Lulic was actually very good at offense and controlling the ball, while SMS was also at his best dominating those Napoli players and having some speed he was lacking in the previous matches. We didn't create lots of clear cut chances but it was an even match and we were leading until the 43rd.

One thing about Luis Alberto, he made so many errors and couldn't make a good pass, in many ways he's just like Felipe Anderson, and his hair is also Tare gold which Anderson wore for a brief while. Such poor display didn't get the same reaction from fans, are we having double standards now? For me I support them both and hope they get better in the next games.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Sile on February 11, 2018, 12:24:01 PM
You must be new here Cathal.. here we dont post thought out impressions, we pick a player we currently dislike or who was nearest to the goalscorer and we pin the loss on him  :twinkle: :razz:

 :supsmile:

I know what kind of reaction to expect, but I read through 100+ pages and didn't feel anyone was talking much sense. And I'd hold up my hands and say I must be the crazy one, except I haven't found two people who agree with each other yet.

Whereas saying "Wallace's goal is largely individual but shows lack of cohesion and trust in Strakosha" is talking sense? Wallace (a backup) isn't confident in Strakosha (starter) who played 4 times as many minutes this season?
Seems to me that instead of identifying the real culprit some people are going above and beyond in pinning blame elsewhere.
Radu was as bad if not worse than Wallace? Sure, find me examples where Radu:
1. totally misskicks the ball and allows Insigne into the box to fire at will
2. scores an own goal
3. commits a completely unnecessary foul on Insigne at the return pass to strakosha which could have easily been a penalty

I'm listening
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: badboyyy on February 11, 2018, 01:07:14 PM
First thing was, that our midfielders jus lost so many balls in middle, what expose our defenders with quick Napoli counters, Wallace sliding in Strakosha area (match commentator said wtf is he doing?) for the first goal who sees when Calejon running in the penalty area? Lulic, and he just standing. Lost 2sec of concentration - cost a goal.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 11, 2018, 01:10:22 PM
I'm listening
But do you hear?  :whistle:

Yes, I think it makes perfect sense that someone who hasn't played many games this season in Wallace would take matters into his own hands and attempt to intercept a cross than trust his goalkeeper, who has been playing professionally for less than three years.

As much as that is indeed an error from Wallace, if Wallace played week in, week out and that was an experienced goalkeeper such as Marchetti, that doesn't happen because either Marchetti would shout or Wallace would have enough match practice to know to leave it.

Radu's mistake on the fourth goal was the biggest individual error of the game. How can you stand in the box without a marker and watch Mertens run into the box and score?

And that wasn't all Radu did wrong in the game - the failure of the offside trap was on him as much as anyone else. When Insigne had his chance in the first half, Radu had no idea where the line was and Callejon's goal was largely down to Radu's indecision if anyone went back and watched the incident unfold.

But I get that it's easier to just blame Lulic in real time, you know, because it makes total sense to blame an individual for failing to pull off an action it takes 3-5 players to make.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 11, 2018, 01:31:55 PM
I'm listening
But do you hear?  :whistle:



And that wasn't all Radu did wrong in the game - the failure of the offside trap was on him as much as anyone else. When Insigne had his chance in the first half, Radu had no idea where the line was and Callejon's goal was largely down to Radu's indecision if anyone went back and watched the incident unfold.

But I get that it's easier to just blame Lulic in real time, you know, because it makes total sense to blame an individual for failing to pull off an action it takes 3-5 players to make.


the goal is solely on lulic, not to mention he did the same mistake in the early minutes of the second half and then he made sure we get another goal by trying to be like messi


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoWFEhAiq7w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoWFEhAiq7w) 2:30 on the clip - the whole defense is in line, except lulic, who on top of all just stops to track back and watches

3:18 - luli loses the ball, leaves his area open while he casually jogs back, cross follows wallace own goal
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Sile on February 11, 2018, 01:35:36 PM
Who is Wallace to question Strakosha? Wallace goes into panic mode and it's down to Strakosha's inexperience?

Radu knows exactly where the line is because he is perfect line with DV, Wallace when the ball is played and the only person leaving Callejon onside is Lulic. 

Radu's individual error on the 4th goal? Please explain what is Marusic doing in the incident, he's covering no-one and allows the ball to be threaded in between him and DV.

I'm hearing but you're not watching.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 11, 2018, 01:37:31 PM
i don't get what difference does it make who the 4th goal is on, when the team stopped playing
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on February 11, 2018, 01:42:28 PM
People are quick to blame and point fingers because these defensive blunders have become a habit. It's the norm now to see a Lazio match where a defender makes errors that costs goals. The exception now is the defence playing 90 minutes without major errors.

I can forgive lulic because he's been ok this season overall and him sleeping during that offside trap isn't something I'd usually associate with lulic. There's other players I have zero patience with though and this comes down to the fact I've not seen anything from them that suggests they are good enough to play for us.

With this defence finishing outside the top 6 is not something any of you should shrug off as unrealistic. Our fate comes down to our forwards finding their form again. I've given up on our defenders, I don't trust them anymore.

Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 11, 2018, 01:49:24 PM
the goal is solely on lulic

Radu knows exactly where the line is because he is perfect line with DV, Wallace when the ball is played and the only person leaving Callejon onside is Lulic. 

What's not in the blurred highlights is that Radu initially drops deep to defend and Lulic drops back to match his line, then Radu makes a sudden call to play the offside trap and shouts across at de Vrij while pushing up, at which point the pass is made. Lulic doesn't get a call, and also isn't able to read Radu's mind. Not as far as I know anyway.

But like I said, easier to blame Lulic at the time, and just as easy to go back and watch shitty highlights which misses half the situation and still blame Lulic.

Radu's individual error on the 4th goal? Please explain what is Marusic doing in the incident, he's covering no-one and allows the ball to be threaded in between him and DV.

Marusic is doubling up on Zielinski, preventing him for cutting inside and firing a shot on goal. That's obvious. And you can't blame Marusic there without blaming de Vrij.

Both yourself and Roman_Eagle used to be among the more logical members on the forum. I don't know what's happening of late.

Wallace had a poor game. The point I'm making is, so did Radu and a number of others. But you wouldn't know it reading this forum.

And the fact you guys really feel the need the point about certain players speaks volumes in my opinion.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Sile on February 11, 2018, 02:07:13 PM
Lulic hasn't started playing football yesterday, and he should by now be aware of how an offside trap works. Also, he's been playing alongside Radu for years and years now, so I'm pretty sure they have decent communication, and however you put it it was Lulic's mistake.

If Marusic is doubling up on Zelinski then he's doing a piss poor job because he couldn't stop the ball being filtered behind him. And yeah, DV isn't absolved of guilt, but you've specifically identified Radu as the culprit.

Let's just agree that we need serious work in the defensive department and leave it at that.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Hadi Van Der Vaart on February 11, 2018, 02:15:50 PM
While I agree our defense was horrible in this game n they let us down many times this season, but dont you guys see the other areas were not up to their usual standard last night? Midfield doesnt exist, someone mentioned we are tired, but Sergej was suspended last week n Leiva who played 4 consecutive games in a row had better game than him!
What about the attackers? Luis Alberto had lost his form, just like he lost his black hair n Ciro wasnt his usual self. The whole team just played bad. I'm just afraid Felipe's issue affected the harmony in the team.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 11, 2018, 02:30:12 PM
Lulic hasn't started playing football yesterday, and he should by now be aware of how an offside trap works. Also, he's been playing alongside Radu for years and years now, so I'm pretty sure they have decent communication, and however you put it it was Lulic's mistake.

If it is Radu's responsibility to call for the offside trap, then Lulic is not at fault for that goal because Radu's call came too late. If it's up to each individual to stay in line and realise for themselves when the trap needs to be used, then it's 100% Lulic's fault. But neither you or I know what Inzaghi wanted from the offside trap, so I cannot see how it is fair to blame a single player.

It's plain and simply defensive organisation gone wrong, no matter how you put it.

If Marusic is doubling up on Zelinski then he's doing a piss poor job because he couldn't stop the ball being filtered behind him. And yeah, DV isn't absolved of guilt, but you've specifically identified Radu as the culprit.

Yeah, Marusic does a poor job and so does de Vrij - the whole team did their job badly last night - but doing a job badly is better than doing nothing at all, which is why Radu draws my ire on that fourth goal.

If Radu did a Wallace there and scored an own goal, ****, it'd have been better than what he did - or didn't - do.

Let's just agree that we need serious work in the defensive department and leave it at that.

We do, but this is why the weekly scapegoating is ridiculous.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Boksic on February 11, 2018, 02:35:53 PM
From all the matches I've seen this season whenever we're put under pressure we always concede after a few minutes, we're just unable to contain and we always look like we're falling apart. This leads me to beleive that we have not yet found a balance between defence and attack. We can either overload score a lot and win, which we've done a couple of times but we seem to fail whenever we need to sit back and deploy tactics to stop the other team from getting the ball into the box. I beleive this is partly coming from the 3 man at the back, the wing backs being deployed way too high and the inability of shifting tactics dynamically which we've seen happening at the beginning of the season but not so much recently. I beleive yesterday we would have still lost irelative of the Wallace mistake but I beleive we would have got a result if we managed to hold onto the 1-0 until half time. If we had the right tactics and the right amount of defensive duties we should have been into the match right till the end. So to me it's up to Inzaghi to find the right balance, this isn't working, this needs to change. This is a big squad just find some balance.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 11, 2018, 02:57:22 PM
the goal is solely on lulic

Radu knows exactly where the line is because he is perfect line with DV, Wallace when the ball is played and the only person leaving Callejon onside is Lulic. 

What's not in the blurred highlights is that Radu initially drops deep to defend and Lulic drops back to match his line, then Radu makes a sudden call to play the offside trap and shouts across at de Vrij while pushing up, at which point the pass is made. Lulic doesn't get a call, and also isn't able to read Radu's mind. Not as far as I know anyway.

But like I said, easier to blame Lulic at the time, and just as easy to go back and watch shitty highlights which misses half the situation and still blame Lulic.



i just rewatched the highlights and radu is not moving anywhere, even if he is moving to the back why is lulic following, when the other 3 are not tracking back? how the offside trap works is one of the defenders is appointed as a mark and if he steps forward, the whole line moves forward.

im not pointing fingers, but lulic made 3 crucial mistakes, which lead to 2 goals. simple facts. i do think that the coppa goal painted him as a saint.....which he is not
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 11, 2018, 03:41:09 PM
i just rewatched the highlights and radu is not moving anywhere, even if he is moving to the back why is lulic following, when the other 3 are not tracking back? how the offside trap works is one of the defenders is appointed as a mark and if he steps forward, the whole line moves forward.

Highlights: http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2018/02/10/ssc-napoli-vs-lazio-highlights/ (http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2018/02/10/ssc-napoli-vs-lazio-highlights/)

Go to 1:40. Radu and de Vrij are deeper than Lulic, Wallace and Marusic. Radu and de Vrij have retreated, so Lulic decides to get in line with Radu, Wallace gets in line with de Vrij.

Callejon starts his run between Radu and Lulic. Senad decides to track the run, Radu calls for the offside trap.

Almost everyone on the forum is seeing this as Lulic screwing up the offside trap, but this could easily be interpreted as Radu being completely oblivious to his man in Callejon.

Furthermore, Lulic is not the only one who doesn't spring the trap - Wallace and Marusic are moving backwards - only Radu and de Vrij move forward to play the trap.

Blaming Lulic is too easy. There is no real offside trap there and the bottom line is that our defenders were not on the same page.

That's all I need to say. I know anyone who takes the time to read this post and watch the highlights is going to understand my point.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: ilsemprelaziale on February 11, 2018, 04:07:03 PM
I don't think anyone will disagree with the statement that our entire defence is struggling, not just individual players. It's just that certain individual have a longer track record of making huge errors and their individual mistakes cost both goals and points, therefore people have less patience with them.

Anyway I'm just shocked that we've seemingly done so well this season and yet we're set to concede as many goals as we did last season. So far we've conceded 1.375 goals per match on average, last season it was 1.34 per match. So if you care about the small details you could say our defence is so far worse this season than last season.

Also I just looked at the rest of the schedule and my god, the last 7 matches in the season  :what:

Round 32: Derby
Round 33: Fiorentina away
Round 34: Sampdoria home
Round 35: Torino away
Round 36: Atalanta home
Round 37: Crotone away
Round 38: Inter home

Of course this Lazio we see right now is not the same Lazio we saw 3 months ago. If it was that Lazio I wouldn't be so worried, but this Lazio we see now wouldn't pick up more than a handful of points in those matches I reckon.

Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 11, 2018, 10:54:56 PM
i just rewatched the highlights and radu is not moving anywhere, even if he is moving to the back why is lulic following, when the other 3 are not tracking back? how the offside trap works is one of the defenders is appointed as a mark and if he steps forward, the whole line moves forward.

Highlights: [url]http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2018/02/10/ssc-napoli-vs-lazio-highlights/[/url] ([url]http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2018/02/10/ssc-napoli-vs-lazio-highlights/[/url])

Go to 1:40. Radu and de Vrij are deeper than Lulic, Wallace and Marusic. Radu and de Vrij have retreated, so Lulic decides to get in line with Radu, Wallace gets in line with de Vrij.

Callejon starts his run between Radu and Lulic. Senad decides to track the run, Radu calls for the offside trap.

Almost everyone on the forum is seeing this as Lulic screwing up the offside trap, but this could easily be interpreted as Radu being completely oblivious to his man in Callejon.

Furthermore, Lulic is not the only one who doesn't spring the trap - Wallace and Marusic are moving backwards - only Radu and de Vrij move forward to play the trap.

Blaming Lulic is too easy. There is no real offside trap there and the bottom line is that our defenders were not on the same page.

That's all I need to say. I know anyone who takes the time to read this post and watch the highlights is going to understand my point.


are you serious? despite having better replay of the whole situation, you are still blaming it on radu??
yes - radu and dv are deeper than lulic - by one step, which they make forward and the pass comes  2 seconds later and when that pass comes lulic is covering by 1 meter. the question is why is lulic not watchig the 3 cbs, what is he looking at??? and marusic and wallace are certainly not tracking back.

radu doesn't cover callejon or you are trying to tell me our most experienced defender doesn't even look at his man to check where is he? callejon is lulic's man

and after the goal you can see who is radu waving at
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 11, 2018, 11:12:41 PM
are you serious? despite having better replay of the whole situation, you are still blaming it on radu??

Nope. I'm saying I can't put 100% of the blame on Lulic. Big difference.

yes - radu and dv are deeper than lulic - by one step, which they make forward and the pass comes  2 seconds later and when that pass comes lulic is covering by 1 meter. the question is why is lulic not watchig the 3 cbs, what is he looking at???

...Callejon...

radu doesn't cover callejon or you are trying to tell me our most experienced defender doesn't even look at his man to check where is he? callejon is lulic's man

Inzaghi been on the phone to you to confirm Lulic is 100% responsible for covering Callejon at all times in the game?

I am indeed saying Radu had no idea where Callejon was, because he didn't. The have a joint responsibility to take care of Callejon and they weren't on the same page. Lulic had a faceful of Callejon and Radu was too busy orchestrating an offside trap.

and after the goal you can see who is radu waving at

And?

Maybe I should sit here and wave my hands around because apparently that would make you wrong...
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: campiador on February 12, 2018, 12:03:11 AM
Dude WTF, everybody knows the side backs should follow the CB to keep the offside line.

Take a look at 2:11 of the same video you mentioned. Regardless of what has happened in the past few seconds, just one glance at of that moment is enough to confidently say Lullic is absolutely responsible for this goal.

We conceded a goal like an amateur team because Lullic defended like an amateur. These goals are not just one, they break down the team morale. 10 players run like hell for 40 minutes to hold the line. Then one person brainfarts and you concede a simple goal that shouldn't happen in even Serie B.That goal broke our back.

I really get frustrated when someone applies 'what-aboutism' to respond to an argument. Reminds me of Kelly-Anne Conway here in the US. 

Reporter: Why did Lullic not follow the freaking offside line?
Kelly-Anne: But what about DV, Radu, Marusic a few moments ago?!

EDIT: hope you don't get offended by the joke bro. I might have been a bit too harsh. So apologies for that. I was more trying to find a way attack Conway since I saw her on TV earlier today :))
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: edo_shehb on February 12, 2018, 07:30:46 AM
While I agree our defense was horrible in this game n they let us down many times this season, but dont you guys see the other areas were not up to their usual standard last night? Midfield doesnt exist, someone mentioned we are tired, but Sergej was suspended last week n Leiva who played 4 consecutive games in a row had better game than him!
What about the attackers? Luis Alberto had lost his form, just like he lost his black hair n Ciro wasnt his usual self. The whole team just played bad. I'm just afraid Felipe's issue affected the harmony in the team.

for real bro?, we also pointing finger to those who didnt play for the shitty perfomance?  :fingerup:
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Hadi Van Der Vaart on February 12, 2018, 07:41:12 AM
for real bro?, we also pointing finger to those who didnt play for the shitty perfomance?  :fingerup:

So what? Yes he didnt play, but he had heated conversation with the coach after last week's game which made the other players had to intervene. I didnt point finger on him, we've played bad since weeks ago, but at least that incident should bother the harmony in the team.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 12, 2018, 08:36:24 AM
Dude WTF, everybody knows the side backs should follow the CB to keep the offside line.

That's just not true. In many teams, the centre-backs are supposed to follow the full-backs or wing-backs because generally the wide defenders are further up the pitch so the centre-backs have to match their line.

Take a look at 2:11 of the same video you mentioned. Regardless of what has happened in the past few seconds, just one glance at of that moment is enough to confidently say Lullic is absolutely responsible for this goal.

This is classic whataboutism. I'm asking people to look at what happens 2-3 seconds before Lulic's so-called error and of course it comes back to 'what about Lulic'. You can't just disregard the entire action which leads to the goal.

The offside trap didn't work for 90 minutes and looking at one particular instance of it failing and pinning all the blame on Lulic for the defeat is simply unfair.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: stefano_40 on February 12, 2018, 09:10:34 AM
Honestly, pointing fingers in a game like this is pretty hollow in my opinion. Disregard the first goal and we still would have been on the end of a hiding, judging by our second half performance. Disregard the Wallace OG and the same stands true.

This match was not decided by one or two incidents, its a culmination of 4 bad games in a row. We are in bad form, Inter and 1927 are in bad form too. I haven't voted in the past 4 games for a man of the match, which says a lot. I think that we simply haven't had one. Even Mr. Inzaghi has dropped the ball a bit.

Personally, certain starters have become too complacent in the fact that their spots are safe, and just aren't performing. I'd like to see Inzaghi threaten starting spots when shit performances are given. It's really the only thing for it right now. Maybe we will see some of our leaders step up again..

Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: blue_sky on February 12, 2018, 09:48:18 AM
Dude WTF, everybody knows the side backs should follow the CB to keep the offside line.

That's just not true. In many teams, the centre-backs are supposed to follow the full-backs or wing-backs because generally the wide defenders are further up the pitch so the centre-backs have to match their line.

Take a look at 2:11 of the same video you mentioned. Regardless of what has happened in the past few seconds, just one glance at of that moment is enough to confidently say Lullic is absolutely responsible for this goal.

This is classic whataboutism. I'm asking people to look at what happens 2-3 seconds before Lulic's so-called error and of course it comes back to 'what about Lulic'. You can't just disregard the entire action which leads to the goal.

The offside trap didn't work for 90 minutes and looking at one particular instance of it failing and pinning all the blame on Lulic for the defeat is simply unfair.

Just to remind you guys the offsides trap was working properly when there is CM or regista or libero who read the game very well. Wing back or full back is only following where the line is.
When we beat Napoli 4-2, there was Biglia who did the job.
We all know Napoli will play long through pass, but simply we didn't learn or missing a player with that capability
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Dakiller961 on February 12, 2018, 09:52:45 AM
I read through all the pages, and I am astonished that no one really analysed why we lost control of the game after 43 minutes.
For me it was clear obvious. Both Leiva and SMS bookings. !

Before leiva got booked, we controlled quite well and covered even better except for the bad offside positioning for a couple of plays including the goal. we had better midfield control and better ball spread. we were absorbing Napoli
Before SMS got booked , we were dominating the Areial and pushing forward. we had two cler cut chances where we should had scored one of them.

After both leiva and SMS got booked, we crumbled, and you can clearly see neither Leiva or SMS are even trying to get the ball.

We can go down and say it was this and that indivudal error, but in the broader aspect of things i am convinced these 2 bookings changed our whole feel to the game.

What is more irritating is that Napoli seem to have been instructed to nag, shout and whine from minute one on each altercation and pressure the referee. i barely saw one Lazio player do that. both Callejon and Alain should have been booked way before both SMS and Leiva were, but that didn't happen, because we didn't pressure the referee

For example, Callejon dangerously tackles strakosha in the box after the GK gets the ball. Not one of our players confronted callejon and made a scene about it. if we had done that, callejon whould have been booked, and games do change with these small incidents
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 12, 2018, 10:11:20 AM
are you serious? despite having better replay of the whole situation, you are still blaming it on radu??

Nope. I'm saying I can't put 100% of the blame on Lulic. Big difference.

yes - radu and dv are deeper than lulic - by one step, which they make forward and the pass comes  2 seconds later and when that pass comes lulic is covering by 1 meter. the question is why is lulic not watchig the 3 cbs, what is he looking at???

...Callejon...

radu doesn't cover callejon or you are trying to tell me our most experienced defender doesn't even look at his man to check where is he? callejon is lulic's man

Inzaghi been on the phone to you to confirm Lulic is 100% responsible for covering Callejon at all times in the game?

I am indeed saying Radu had no idea where Callejon was, because he didn't. The have a joint responsibility to take care of Callejon and they weren't on the same page. Lulic had a faceful of Callejon and Radu was too busy orchestrating an offside trap.

and after the goal you can see who is radu waving at

And?

Maybe I should sit here and wave my hands around because apparently that would make you wrong...

- 99% ? case solved

- if he is looking at callejon then he is even worse - if you trained for an offside trap, thats what you are doing, following your mark will only make you brake the line, as it happened...and lulic was supposed to be a good defender

- if lulic doesn't have to cover callejon, what is he doing there then? covering the the sideline? its absolutely evident from the replay, that radu is not giving a rats ass about callejon, while lulic is watching his movements

- what do you mean and? did you see lulic's action after the goal while radu is waving at him? you mean to tell me that hot head lulic will not wave back if its not his fault?
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: blue-white on February 12, 2018, 10:35:18 AM
very very interesting discussion about the goals.

First, our first half was a good display. Not very good, but good - unfortunately we were not able to get a 2 goal lead, because we didn't create enough chances.

to the 1:1. Lulic fault? ... for sure he was a part of this. whole fault? ... never!!

- first, this was never never ever an offside trap - an offside trap which should have been a real planned one.
Marusic and Wallace were on the same line like De Vrij and Radu, but they didn't do it because they wanted to. When the pass came, Wallace is standing still with his body in direction to our goal. This player never played an offside trap in this situation. Same goes for Marusic.

- Lulic should look to the CBs what they are doing, that's completely right, but can anyone tell me what they are doing?....they were seconds before simply too deep in general. If they play/stand more upfront, this situation can't happen

- next point - and this is the point where i get heated:
What is LA and SMS doing in the midfield before Joginho starts this pass (which is still a great pass)?
What are they doing, especially LA? His opponent has so long the ball, and he is watching him. Nothing more.
btw....any single situation where LA did something good in that game?

2nd goal where people bashing Lulic.
Why?...because he lost the ball in the midfield?.... A...others didn't lose the ball in the midfield in other situations?
I have a screenshot for you, where Mertens make the pass to Callejon.
(http://up.picr.de/31803039qx.jpg)

What can we see here? Mertens got the ball, De Vrij moves in this direction. On the side, we have a 2vs2 situation. Radu and Leiva, Allan and Callejon.
So, ... can anybody tell me ... when Mertens kicks the ball, Radu is moving towards the middle when Leiva is in front of him and moves to the middle?

Clear, Lulic lost the ball - but there was still a 2vs2 situation where the opponents simply had too much space.

Some here forget in their bashing-mode that in the first 40 minutes, we were able to see how Lulic and SMS on the left side were clicking, but people don't see that some players didn't do anything as long as they were on the pitch.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 12, 2018, 10:57:45 AM
to the 1:1. Lulic fault? ... for sure he was a part of this. whole fault? ... never!!

- first, this was never never ever an offside trap - an offside trap which should have been a real planned one.
Marusic and Wallace were on the same line like De Vrij and Radu, but they didn't do it because they wanted to. When the pass came, Wallace is standing still with his body in direction to our goal. This player never played an offside trap in this situation. Same goes for Marusic.

- Lulic should look to the CBs what they are doing, that's completely right, but can anyone tell me what they are doing?....they were seconds before simply too deep in general. If they play/stand more upfront, this situation can't happen

My thoughts exactly  :bravo:

There's absolutely loads to discuss in this game, and I just can't accept that one or two players made individual errors that cost us this game. That's been the story for much of the season, but this was definitely a game where every goal was the result of multiple failings in organisation.

Inzaghi basically said that the second half was the worst Lazio have played under him and when the media tried to pin the blame on Wallace, Simone didn't appreciate it.

Immobile and Luis Alberto have lost their form, SMS does brilliance for a percentage of the game, Leiva is the one player that looks tired and I suspect that's why he's getting substituted quite often, Radu had his worst game of the season in my opinion, and I wonder if we would've conceded four goals if Strakosha had the same sort of presence as Marchetti, let's say. And I've a theory on that which I'll share in his topic.

It's just frustrating that it comes back to Wallace and Lulic. For me, Wallace is a very astute defender who simply has his moments and his confidence seems shot at the moment while Lulic just isn't as bad as some want to make out. Wouldn't even say he was among our worst players v Napoli.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Evesto on February 12, 2018, 12:18:39 PM
Damn straight Leiva was tired.  This has been obvious for several of games where he got subbed and people find Inzaghi making unlogical subs.  Yet the club feels no reinforcement needed.  Lazio has been digging it's own grave slowly and slowy and it's was getting deep enough to fall in the last few weeks.

Leiva comes from playing much less at Liverpool as a 30y old to come here in a much more demanding role to play continously.  Sounds to much to ask imo.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 12, 2018, 01:14:49 PM
Damn straight Leiva was tired.  This has been obvious for several of games where he got subbed and people find Inzaghi making unlogical subs.  Yet the club feels no reinforcement needed.  Lazio has been digging it's own grave slowly and slowy and it's was getting deep enough to fall in the last few weeks.

But it makes no difference if our manager is not prepared to utilise his bench fully.

Napoli need to bring guys like Diawara and Rog on every week, and Juventus often throw Sturaro and Betancur out there, not to mention a totally banged up Marchisio. That keeps the midfield fresh.

At Lazio, when we're 2-3 goals up, Inzaghi looks to get Nani and Anderson on or to give Lukaku and Caicedo time when maybe it would do no harm to give Parolo 20 minutes off and give Murgia 20 minutes of Serie A football to put under his belt.

I understand the point about needing another midfielder and the desire for that player to be more proven than Murgia, but that's a romantic notion even for Allegri and Sarri.

I feel Inzaghi is looking at keeping his entrie squad happy, when maybe he needs to be more focused on maintaining the level of the starting XI. After all, managing a team that plays in three competitions is a new experience to Simone.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: jovo on February 12, 2018, 01:52:07 PM
My way of thinking is that this Lazio squad can not beat Napoli this season, we only have the power to stop them for 45 minutes. Our midfield can not compare to theirs and not to speak about our def.
This Napoli is anti-Lazio squad.
p.s The only def player that has the right physical characteristics for this game was Bastos but we all know that his lacks of  inteligence and positioning.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cnon on February 12, 2018, 02:15:08 PM
If there is one player to blame from the first goal, then it surely is Lulic. He was minding his own and not focusing on what's happening around him. But even with Lulic being two step deeper than the rest, our defensive line was pretty darn good and basically you just have to give credits to Napoli for that amazing run and pass, world-class stuff basically which could break any defence in the world.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Evesto on February 12, 2018, 02:15:57 PM
Damn straight Leiva was tired.  This has been obvious for several of games where he got subbed and people find Inzaghi making unlogical subs.  Yet the club feels no reinforcement needed.  Lazio has been digging it's own grave slowly and slowy and it's was getting deep enough to fall in the last few weeks.

But it makes no difference if our manager is not prepared to utilise his bench fully.

Napoli need to bring guys like Diawara and Rog on every week, and Juventus often throw Sturaro and Betancur out there, not to mention a totally banged up Marchisio. That keeps the midfield fresh.

At Lazio, when we're 2-3 goals up, Inzaghi looks to get Nani and Anderson on or to give Lukaku and Caicedo time when maybe it would do no harm to give Parolo 20 minutes off and give Murgia 20 minutes of Serie A football to put under his belt.

I understand the point about needing another midfielder and the desire for that player to be more proven than Murgia, but that's a romantic notion even for Allegri and Sarri.

I feel Inzaghi is looking at keeping his entrie squad happy, when maybe he needs to be more focused on maintaining the level of the starting XI. After all, managing a team that plays in three competitions is a new experience to Simone.

I have to agree with you of course, simply because it's true.  Inzaghi does need to put in Murgia for those final periods in games instead of simply eliminating the position of controlling midfielder.

Inzaghi wants to keep his 'bigger' names on the bench happy with this subbing roles, wich i can understand but am certainly not agreeing with at all. 

Like mentioned before the roster is unbalanced, with more then enough attacking players and to less of controlling central midfielders. 

Inzaghi has Caicedo, Nani & formerly Anderson on the bench with a much bigger status then Murgia.  With this reason he's putting them in.  I'm guessing if there was a CM with more 'status' on the bench Leiva or Parolo would be getting there rest more often then now. 

I'm not excusing him for not bringing Murgia, but i can really understand he wants to keep balance in the squad. 

You mention Diawara & Rog for Sarri, but i think Diawara would get his time on the field here at Lazio much quicker then Murgia, even with Nani on the bench.  Or Marchisio/Sturaro to add to the matter.

Okay, Sarri & Allegri don't have exactly thesame quality on the bench as second option but the difference for Inzaghi with Leiva and Murgia is much bigger imo.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Evesto on February 12, 2018, 02:19:42 PM
If there is one player to blame from the first goal, then it surely is Lulic. He was minding his own and not focusing on what's happening around him. But even with Lulic being two step deeper than the rest, our defensive line was pretty darn good and basically you just have to give credits to Napoli for that amazing run and pass, world-class stuff basically which could break any defence in the world.

There's most definitly a weakness to our formation and style because of the wingers, no doubt about that.  This system requires very dependable wingers in attack and defence.  Lulic, Lukaku and Marusic all lack in defence except Basta, but he lacks more in offence.

This has imo proven more in our losses then the central defence, with the exception of Bastos.

This roster doesn't have the real solution for a solid 4 man backline, noar the for a solid 3-5-x formation.
As long is this is 'unbalanced' we can never have a fully solid season.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 12, 2018, 02:45:50 PM
our defensive line was pretty darn good and basically you just have to give credits to Napoli for that amazing run and pass, world-class stuff basically which could break any defence in the world.

Our defensive line wasn't great in that situation, it just happened to be better than it was for most of the game. Napoli played well, no doubt, but let's say I go with forum logic that every time there's an opportunity to play offside and the player doesn't play offside, said player is at fault. Here's the highlights. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFW1AMhut3k)

0:55 - 'failed offside trap' - Wallace, de Vrij and Radu to blame
1:25 - 'failed offside trap' - Lulic to blame
2:25 - 'failed offside trap' - Radu to blame
2:35 - 'failed offside trap' - Wallace and Radu to blame
3:27 - 'failed offside trap' - de Vrij to blame

We didn't have a clue what we were doing out there. Everyone was doing their own thing. It was obvious.

Okay, Sarri & Allegri don't have exactly thesame quality on the bench as second option but the difference for Inzaghi with Leiva and Murgia is much bigger imo.

That could be the case, but we can't know until Murgia actually gets more action. As I said a few years ago, Cataldi managed to convince many that he was the next big thing simply because he was out there on the field. The gulf in quality between Lulic who was hurt and Cataldi who came in was monumental, but we got away with it. We should get away with playing Murgia too.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: blue-white on February 12, 2018, 03:03:50 PM
Our defensive line wasn't great in that situation, it just happened to be better than it was for most of the game. Napoli played well, no doubt, but let's say I go with forum logic that every time there's an opportunity to play offside and the player doesn't play offside, said player is at fault. Here's the highlights. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFW1AMhut3k)

0:55 - 'failed offside trap' - Wallace, de Vrij and Radu to blame
1:25 - 'failed offside trap' - Lulic to blame
2:25 - 'failed offside trap' - Radu to blame
2:35 - 'failed offside trap' - Wallace and Radu to blame
3:27 - 'failed offside trap' - de Vrij to blame

We didn't have a clue what we were doing out there. Everyone was doing their own thing. It was obvious.

 :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
perfect sum up of more than one situation where our defense had a bad standing.

BTW.... Lazio never never plays offside traps!!! They didn't just tried it in this game - no no - , they simply didn't know what they do...
in these scenes you can see that there is always at least one player who is standing too deep compared to the rest. But the funny thing is - they don't play offside traps because they wanted to...
This is all coincidence what we see here....and exactly this is the sad thing about our defense. They didn't know what they should do!!!
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cnon on February 12, 2018, 03:06:21 PM
our defensive line was pretty darn good and basically you just have to give credits to Napoli for that amazing run and pass, world-class stuff basically which could break any defence in the world.

Our defensive line wasn't great in that situation, it just happened to be better than it was for most of the game. Napoli played well, no doubt, but let's say I go with forum logic that every time there's an opportunity to play offside and the player doesn't play offside, said player is at fault. Here's the highlights. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFW1AMhut3k)

0:55 - 'failed offside trap' - Wallace, de Vrij and Radu to blame
1:25 - 'failed offside trap' - Lulic to blame
2:25 - 'failed offside trap' - Radu to blame
2:35 - 'failed offside trap' - Wallace and Radu to blame
3:27 - 'failed offside trap' - de Vrij to blame

We didn't have a clue what we were doing out there. Everyone was doing their own thing. It was obvious.

I was only talking about that one incident and about the line, not what they're doing or what they're not doing. It's basically as straight line as possible (which is what you want) except that Lulic is two steps deeper. Imagine, two steps marginal in our line and Napoli found a way to abuse it. I've seen much much worse lines that still hold it because the opposing teams doesn't have as perfect runs or long passes. And I'm not even talking about the first touch which again was perfect. That's all I meant.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 12, 2018, 10:39:31 PM
very very interesting discussion about the goals.

First, our first half was a good display. Not very good, but good - unfortunately we were not able to get a 2 goal lead, because we didn't create enough chances.

to the 1:1. Lulic fault? ... for sure he was a part of this. whole fault? ... never!!

- first, this was never never ever an offside trap - an offside trap which should have been a real planned one.
Marusic and Wallace were on the same line like De Vrij and Radu, but they didn't do it because they wanted to. When the pass came, Wallace is standing still with his body in direction to our goal. This player never played an offside trap in this situation. Same goes for Marusic.

- Lulic should look to the CBs what they are doing, that's completely right, but can anyone tell me what they are doing?....they were seconds before simply too deep in general. If they play/stand more upfront, this situation can't happen



you have 4 out of 5 defenders playing in line and keeping players off side and you are actually defending the 5th man, who plays callejon on side?

yes wallace is facing the goal expecting a run from mertens or insigne, but he is not playing anyone onside

it doesn't matter how high the defense is, as long as there is someone falling behind, i seriously find it very very hard to find your arguments here, the guy was 1 meter behind the rest....

how do you know what wallace and marusic wanted to do? you train everyday with them?

on the second goal - the fact the pass goes left and not center means the central field is covered, but what does lulic do, when he loses the ball? rushes back to cover his area? nope...does a little jog
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 12, 2018, 10:56:08 PM


0:55 - 'failed offside trap' - Wallace, de Vrij and Radu to blame
1:25 - 'failed offside trap' - Lulic to blame
2:25 - 'failed offside trap' - Radu to blame
2:35 - 'failed offside trap' - Wallace and Radu to blame
3:27 - 'failed offside trap' - de Vrij to blame



simply hilarious post, again talking nonsense to prove your point.

0:55 - how can you blame your 3 central defenders  :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: plus insigne was well covered by wallace and had no chance to score

1:25 - already covered that

2:25 - yes, radu covers the offside, but guess what - he covers his man aswell, unlike lulic, who just stopped following callejon

2:35 - apparently you are not aware how this thing works saying this is a failed offside

3:27 - dv follows his man and the guy is covered, the fact is the other defenders failed

all in all i see one offside play failed and its the lulic one, because for an offside to fail its widely accepted that the player which escapes has a clear shot on goal
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 12, 2018, 11:08:46 PM
simply hilarious post, again talking nonsense to prove your point.

Of course it is hilarious and nonsensical - I was using YOUR logic to illustrate how flawed it is when you apply it to ALL scenarios in the game.

All you did in totally misunderstanding the post was prove that you are not applying the same logic to Lulic as you are to other players.

What did the guy ever do to you?  :razz:
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: campiador on February 12, 2018, 11:34:11 PM
Dude WTF, everybody knows the side backs should follow the CB to keep the offside line.

That's just not true. In many teams, the centre-backs are supposed to follow the full-backs or wing-backs because generally the wide defenders are further up the pitch so the centre-backs have to match their line.


Seriously?! You are willing to question the most basic facts of the game to win an argument!

Name one team where the side backs lead the offside line! You can't! And I'll explain why.

Have you ever played defense in football? I have. The reason center back holds the line and not the side backs or wingers is that a side back can glance at one side. Whereas if the CB were to follow side backs he would have to look both to left and right. Given that human eye cannot follow two objects of 180 degree at the same time, it is impossible for the center back to follow the side backs simultaneously. The last side back alternative is if everyone was following one side back, say right back. That would make the left side-back the weak spot, because then left back has to try hard to follow a player very far from him. In our case for example, Lulic would probably have two or three fellow defenders in between himself and the defender on the other side of the pitch.

 It's simple and it's plain.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: campiador on February 12, 2018, 11:55:40 PM
simply hilarious post, again talking nonsense to prove your point.

What did the guy ever do to you?  :razz:

Lulic (1) is a right-footed LWB, so when close to opposition box, he cannot cross properly with his left foot so 90% of the time he does the predictable Lullic move instead. (2) When in possession in our half and facing the faintest amount of pressure, Lullic usually gives the ball away through aimless clearances, instead of targeted passes.

Marusic is following Lullic's footsteps, and we need high quality wingers. We would have destroyed Roma if we had a Kolarov instead of Lullic. And we used to. Same problem with RWB, though comparatively benign.

Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: lazioserbia on February 13, 2018, 12:04:00 AM
It's Lulic, not Lullic. He ain't French bro.

Ease up on him. He is the captain, a hard worker and loyal. He ****ed 1927 and there is no reason to bash on him, he makes mistakes, big deal, he's human. You and all of us owe him respect for everything he's done for Lazio.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: campiador on February 13, 2018, 01:42:00 AM
Respecting and giving a first 11 spot are two different things. I'm not bashing him. I am among the few who actually prefer Lulic to Lukaku.

I am simply saying that this team needs wingers of higher caliber. We need players at the same level of Segej, Leiva, DV, Radu, and Ciro on our wings. That's what I mean by Kolarov.

Please focus on him next time. See how many times he kicks the ball with no aim when under pressure. I am always grateful to Lulic for what he has done for us. But we have to stop our sentiments from clouding our judgment. Lulic is a decent player, but definitely not starting 11 material for CL.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: christ_JM on February 13, 2018, 02:12:36 AM
I read through all the pages, and I am astonished that no one really analysed why we lost control of the game after 43 minutes.
For me it was clear obvious. Both Leiva and SMS bookings. !

Before leiva got booked, we controlled quite well and covered even better except for the bad offside positioning for a couple of plays including the goal. we had better midfield control and better ball spread. we were absorbing Napoli
Before SMS got booked , we were dominating the Areial and pushing forward. we had two cler cut chances where we should had scored one of them.

After both leiva and SMS got booked, we crumbled, and you can clearly see neither Leiva or SMS are even trying to get the ball.

We can go down and say it was this and that indivudal error, but in the broader aspect of things i am convinced these 2 bookings changed our whole feel to the game.

What is more irritating is that Napoli seem to have been instructed to nag, shout and whine from minute one on each altercation and pressure the referee. i barely saw one Lazio player do that. both Callejon and Alain should have been booked way before both SMS and Leiva were, but that didn't happen, because we didn't pressure the referee

For example, Callejon dangerously tackles strakosha in the box after the GK gets the ball. Not one of our players confronted callejon and made a scene about it. if we had done that, callejon whould have been booked, and games do change with these small incidents

Good post.

The referee plays a big part even though no red cards were shown. I am surprised Leiva received a yellow card when he hit the ball.

We had the momentum and failed to score a second goal.

When your attack fails to retain posession or score in one of the 4-5 half chances, it invariably puts your defence under immense pressure.

It is for this reason that Lulic etc made the "mistake".

This goal also depleted the energy from the side.

We did not come out to play at all after half time.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: lazioserbia on February 13, 2018, 02:35:41 AM
Respecting and giving a first 11 spot are two different things. I'm not bashing him. I am among the few who actually prefer Lulic to Lukaku.

I am simply saying that this team needs wingers of higher caliber. We need players at the same level of Segej, Leiva, DV, Radu, and Ciro on our wings. That's what I mean by Kolarov.

Please focus on him next time. See how many times he kicks the ball with no aim when under pressure. I am always grateful to Lulic for what he has done for us. But we have to stop our sentiments from clouding our judgment. Lulic is a decent player, but definitely not starting 11 material for CL.

Among the few? It was like 50:4 for Lulic  :razz:

I don't have a problem with Lulic having only one dribble because it works a lot of the times. He isn't having a great season but he is a good player.

I've looked at Lulic for the last 10 years and I've seen a lot, sometimes bad and sometimes good. But what he did buys him a place here forever.

Better wingers than him cost at least 20 millions. Lotito won't pay that so get used to Lulic 71  :winner:
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 13, 2018, 08:08:47 AM
Dude WTF, everybody knows the side backs should follow the CB to keep the offside line.

That's just not true. In many teams, the centre-backs are supposed to follow the full-backs or wing-backs because generally the wide defenders are further up the pitch so the centre-backs have to match their line.

Seriously?! You are willing to question the most basic facts of the game to win an argument!

Name one team where the side backs lead the offside line! You can't! And I'll explain why.

What I can do is show you an actual Premier League manager and someone who used to play Lulic's position who shares my viewpoint.

Playing the offside trap as a full-back: the do's and don'ts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=lnaH7nsQBLQ#)

There was no 'offside trap' to be played on that goal because the defensive line were not positoned for it. This is really obvious if you look beyond wanting to put the blame on Lulic.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: blue_sky on February 13, 2018, 11:25:55 AM
Dude WTF, everybody knows the side backs should follow the CB to keep the offside line.

That's just not true. In many teams, the centre-backs are supposed to follow the full-backs or wing-backs because generally the wide defenders are further up the pitch so the centre-backs have to match their line.


Seriously?! You are willing to question the most basic facts of the game to win an argument!

Name one team where the side backs lead the offside line! You can't! And I'll explain why.

Have you ever played defense in football? I have. The reason center back holds the line and not the side backs or wingers is that a side back can glance at one side. Whereas if the CB were to follow side backs he would have to look both to left and right. Given that human eye cannot follow two objects of 180 degree at the same time, it is impossible for the center back to follow the side backs simultaneously. The last side back alternative is if everyone was following one side back, say right back. That would make the left side-back the weak spot, because then left back has to try hard to follow a player very far from him. In our case for example, Lulic would probably have two or three fellow defenders in between himself and the defender on the other side of the pitch.

 It's simple and it's plain.
That's very true. +1
And it's not about we play offside trap or not but it's about a defense line when being attack.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 13, 2018, 12:19:34 PM
Absolutely blowing my mind that so many people here are agreeing with an argument that Lulic - a wing-back/wide-midfielder - should be pushing up to match the line of Radu - a centre-back - to play a successful offside trap and that I'm being told that I'm arguing against basic facts of the game.

If Inzaghi was actually coaching the team to play offside, the obvious way to plan it is this: Radu, match Lulic's line. Wallace, match Marusic's line, de Vrij, join the line. That's why I'm saying the wing-backs can set the line in offside traps because very often - particularly the way we play - they are further up the pitch and therefore the onus should be on the centre-backs to push up alongside them.

But we had five players all in a rough line (everyone was moving around, no one holding station), none of them applying pressure to the Napoli forwards. That's not the positioning required to play offside.

Sure, you can argue given the way events unfolded, that Lulic should've pushed up but here's the three issues I have with that and it's the last I'll say on the matter.

1) equally reasonable to ask why Radu - who has no one in close proximity - doesn't check on Callejon and positions himself to track back and intercept the long ball over the top. After all, what does Radu actually do in the end?

2) if Lulic pushes up more decisively, then Callejon would delay his run and Wallace would end up playing him onside and then you Lulic is the idiot for running away from Callejon.

3) Strakosha could've come of his line and made it much more difficult for Callejon.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: blue-white on February 13, 2018, 12:20:33 PM
I played nearly my whole football amateur career as defender - first as RB then CB. Sometimes i was used in the defensive midfield.

I totally agree with campiador when he says that the sidebacks should follow the CBs when you play an offside trap.
Sure, you can start to build the trap from the wingbacks too, but normally - this gets build up from the CBs.

BUT - the big jumping point is - that in this situation where people blame Lulic - our CBs where not playing an offside trap. This was simply not planned in this situation, because both Radu and De Vrij were standing too deep for playing a trap.

You can perfectly see it on Wallace. He is a bit more upfront, but his body shows in Strakosha direction. He is simply standing more upfront, and De Vrij and Radu are going to that line.

They simply didn't play an offside trap because they wanted to!!! If they would have done this, all 5 on the line would make their steps in the opponents direction.

Look at Marusic, Wallace and Lulic - and you see that no one played on an offside trap!

And again ... in general - since when exactly does Lazio play active on offside traps? We are playing with 5 defenders - there is no need to play that. Real active offside traps - we barely see in our team.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Stefano6 on February 13, 2018, 12:36:05 PM
Sorry Cathal, but even in that video you shared, Chris Hughton is saying that the 2 CBs will create "the line"  as they are closest to each other and can communicate and obviously have the attacker(s) close to are able to time the trap.

He says that "the important one is the fullback" - this doesnt mean he is the one leading the line, he is saying that its important that he doesnt let himself drop deeper than the CBs because doing so of course means the striker is onside. The fullback is important in the sense that he can ruin it the trap. But he cant create it.


I dont agree with pinning the blame on Lulic at all (maybe it would have been better for some if Lukaku had played  :supsmile: )   but it is clear that when an offisde trap was tried, it failed. But we had more than 1 problem defensively against Napoli, the lack of overall coordination is just one of them.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 13, 2018, 12:42:44 PM
I totally agree with campiador when he says that the sidebacks should follow the CBs when you play an offside trap.
Sure, you can start to build the trap from the wingbacks too, but normally - this gets build up from the CBs.

Point I was trying to make is that if we plan to play offside in this 3-5-2 system, you can't have the centre-backs make the offside call and expect the wing-backs to follow the line if on many occasions, Lulic and Marusic are going to be 40-50m up the pitch busting their balls to try and get back and help out the centre-backs. It won't work.

That's why with our system, it wouldn't be weird for the wing-backs to set the line so that the centre-backs push up in line with the wing-backs. I'm not saying Lulic would shout over at Radu and say 'push up', but that in situations where the wing-backs are nearby, the centre-backs would be coached to push up and form a line where the wing-backs are.

If we actually played 5-3-2, then of course it would make sense for de Vrij to set the line. But we don't, and it's very impractical to use a 3-5-2 in this system where the wing-backs are clearly more advanced than the centre-backs and de Vrij has sweeper duties. To play offside successfully, the defensive line needs to be flat and clear... and it never is with this Lazio  :supsmile:

Sorry Cathal, but even in that video you shared, Chris Hughton is saying that the 2 CBs will create "the line"  as they are closest to each other and can communicate and obviously have the attacker(s) close to are able to time the trap.

I never said the centre-backs didn't create the line. campiador said everyone knows that full-backs or wing-backs match the line of the centre-backs, but that's not always the case. Sometimes the full-back and wing-backs just has to stay put and do nothing (basically what Hughton is saying) and sometimes, as I explained above, they can't even be a part of the trap.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Stefano6 on February 13, 2018, 12:45:59 PM
Maybe something is lost on me then, but why does it matter? If Lulic is 20m further up the pitch than the CBs are then he obviously has no affect on any offside trap.

Unless this was the point, sorry I havnt followed all the pages!
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 13, 2018, 12:55:12 PM
Maybe something is lost on me then, but why does it matter? If Lulic is 20m further up the pitch than the CBs are then he obviously has no affect on any offside trap.

Unless this was the point, sorry I havnt followed all the pages!

Was really just trying to explain that there's no one universal way to play the offside trap and therefore none of us can assume that Marusic, Wallace, de Vrij and Radu all played the offside perfectly and Lulic is the idiot that didn't get the memo.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cnon on February 13, 2018, 01:21:52 PM
2) if Lulic pushes up more decisively, then Callejon would delay his run and Wallace would end up playing him onside and then you Lulic is the idiot for running away from Callejon.

If Lulic would be on the same line with others (=paying attention what other defenders are doing), then Callejon, like you said, would have had to wait which most likely would have been enough for others to react and stop his run or Callejon would have been in offside. Now Lulic was wrongly positioned and even then it was really close that it would have been offside but Lulic being two steps too deep played him onside. And I mean that's what Lulic should have done way before the pass, not when the pass was happening.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: blue_sky on February 13, 2018, 01:36:58 PM
The thing that most probably all said that we are playing offside trap and I don't agree with. It's not offside trap we played, but Lulic is to wide to close to Radu and he is too deep to compared to other. Until this situation, in static situation, Lulic is wrong position in wrong time.
Basically when we are in defense situations, wing back will be so closed each other to side where the ball is played so that we have 5 players in that situation and this will minimize space so that we can intercept the ball.
So no offside trap I agree with, but Lulic isn't positioning himself where he should be and make Callejon space to run to.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cnon on February 13, 2018, 01:43:03 PM
Yeah some might have said it wrong, we don't play offside trap as team in general. But you don't need an active offside trap to make a player be offside if their timing is off. Now their timing was close to perfect because Lulic was positioned wrongly. Should he had been positioned correctly, Napoli's timing would have been off and it would have been an offside or our CBs would have had time to react and most likely stop Callejon like I said before. In the end it's Lulic fault simple as that.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: blue_sky on February 13, 2018, 01:55:32 PM
I agree with you Cnon at all because the contra argument of guys here who is not agree that Lulic is culprit always about so called "we didn't play offside trap" with 352.
That's superficial and theoretical. As situation in that game there was a timing and Lulic make it work, so called offside trap didn't work
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 13, 2018, 02:03:35 PM
To all you are placing full blame on Lulic for the goal, what is Radu doing? Wallace is marking Insigne, de Vrij is marking Mertens and Radu is...?

Asking for a friend  :whistle:
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Evesto on February 13, 2018, 02:44:05 PM
To all you are placing full blame on Lulic for the goal, what is Radu doing? Wallace is marking Insigne, de Vrij is marking Mertens and Radu is...?

Asking for a friend  :whistle:

This is the real question to me.  Going for an offside trap in a 3-5-2 really doesn't make any sence to me, and if it was the idea i doubt we would see it much further.

Napoli had 3 attackers and Lazio 3 cb's, would seem strange to me that Radu isn't looking at Callejon with at least half an eye since i would expect him to be assigned to him.  Marusic has to support Wallace & Lulic for Radu.  If Callejon passes freely i would also have trouble leaving Radu with absolutly no blame whatsoever. 

If Lulic put Callejon onside, it doens't mean Radu has the right to be not looking.

Anyhow i have no doubt the situation will have been thouroughly looked at meanwhile, so it's water under the bridge for me.  It won't bring the points back.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 13, 2018, 02:57:39 PM
Napoli had 3 attackers and Lazio 3 cb's, would seem strange to me that Radu isn't looking at Callejon with at least half an eye since i would expect him to be assigned to him.  Marusic has to support Wallace & Lulic for Radu.  If Callejon passes freely i would also have trouble leaving Radu with absolutly no blame whatsoever. 

Exactly. With Callejon, Lulic and Radu are supposed to have each other's back and Stefan didn't have Senad's back.

Now, someone could say Radu did have Lulic's back - he played Callejon offside and Lulic screwed himself over - but when you are playing an offside trap, sort of important to give Lulic the heads up on it.

That's why for me, it's as simple as our defenders were not on the same page. Yeah, Lulic could've pushed up and played Callejon off but Radu could've looked at Callejon, dropped back to cover Lulic and intercepted Jorginho's pass.

Keen to see how those putting 100% of the blame on Lulic can possibly justify putting 0% of the blame on Radu, but can't really say anything more on the matter.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Evesto on February 13, 2018, 03:21:47 PM
Napoli had 3 attackers and Lazio 3 cb's, would seem strange to me that Radu isn't looking at Callejon with at least half an eye since i would expect him to be assigned to him.  Marusic has to support Wallace & Lulic for Radu.  If Callejon passes freely i would also have trouble leaving Radu with absolutly no blame whatsoever. 

Exactly. With Callejon, Lulic and Radu are supposed to have each other's back and Stefan didn't have Senad's back.

Now, someone could say Radu did have Lulic's back - he played Callejon offside and Lulic screwed himself over - but when you are playing an offside trap, sort of important to give Lulic the heads up on it.

That's why for me, it's as simple as our defenders were not on the same page. Yeah, Lulic could've pushed up and played Callejon off but Radu could've looked at Callejon, dropped back to cover Lulic and intercepted Jorginho's pass.

Keen to see how those putting 100% of the blame on Lulic can possibly justify putting 0% of the blame on Radu, but can't really say anything more on the matter.

Sounds logical to me.  Neither Lulic or Radu are in the clear imo also.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Mark on February 13, 2018, 03:23:22 PM
our defensive line was pretty darn good and basically you just have to give credits to Napoli for that amazing run and pass, world-class stuff basically which could break any defence in the world.

Our defensive line wasn't great in that situation, it just happened to be better than it was for most of the game. Napoli played well, no doubt, but let's say I go with forum logic that every time there's an opportunity to play offside and the player doesn't play offside, said player is at fault. Here's the highlights. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFW1AMhut3k)

0:55 - 'failed offside trap' - Wallace, de Vrij and Radu to blame
1:25 - 'failed offside trap' - Lulic to blame
2:25 - 'failed offside trap' - Radu to blame
2:35 - 'failed offside trap' - Wallace and Radu to blame
3:27 - 'failed offside trap' - de Vrij to blame

We didn't have a clue what we were doing out there. Everyone was doing their own thing. It was obvious.

Okay, Sarri & Allegri don't have exactly thesame quality on the bench as second option but the difference for Inzaghi with Leiva and Murgia is much bigger imo.

That could be the case, but we can't know until Murgia actually gets more action. As I said a few years ago, Cataldi managed to convince many that he was the next big thing simply because he was out there on the field. The gulf in quality between Lulic who was hurt and Cataldi who came in was monumental, but we got away with it. We should get away with playing Murgia too.

Think playing and falling the offside trap is an issue that Lazio has had for years, under various managers.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: blue_sky on February 13, 2018, 04:35:26 PM
Napoli had 3 attackers and Lazio 3 cb's, would seem strange to me that Radu isn't looking at Callejon with at least half an eye since i would expect him to be assigned to him.  Marusic has to support Wallace & Lulic for Radu.  If Callejon passes freely i would also have trouble leaving Radu with absolutly no blame whatsoever. 

Exactly. With Callejon, Lulic and Radu are supposed to have each other's back and Stefan didn't have Senad's back.

Now, someone could say Radu did have Lulic's back - he played Callejon offside and Lulic screwed himself over - but when you are playing an offside trap, sort of important to give Lulic the heads up on it.

That's why for me, it's as simple as our defenders were not on the same page. Yeah, Lulic could've pushed up and played Callejon off but Radu could've looked at Callejon, dropped back to cover Lulic and intercepted Jorginho's pass.

Keen to see how those putting 100% of the blame on Lulic can possibly justify putting 0% of the blame on Radu, but can't really say anything more on the matter.

Sounds logical to me.  Neither Lulic or Radu are in the clear imo also.
That question won't matter or should not be questioned.
No one is looking other back coz Radu & DV are two step in front of Lulic in other words Lulic is the last line/person in that situation. How did supposed Radu see the left side plus Lulic is 2 steps behind him?
And it's matter to state that we don't play man marking in that 20-25 meter. Where the logic comes when we play 3 defenders against 3 attackers and in middle of 25 m area?
It's not make sense to ask that kind of logic to counter that obviously Lulic mistake. Not saying 100% and I never said it, but maybe 99% :whistle:
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 13, 2018, 10:36:32 PM
just watch the reactions after the goal, its obvious who is at fault, can't say more
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cnon on February 14, 2018, 02:17:16 PM
Sure Radu could have played it better, nobody denies that. Also Strakosha played it poorly but when you have a striker 1on1 against you and no defenders close, it's hard to be too critical. And like I said before, I also give props to Napoli, they did so many things amazingly well to score. So it's like 60% on Lulic, 30% on Napoli being great, 5% on Radu not noticing what Callejon is doing and 5% on Strakosha not rushing forward more. Oh, and the midfielders could have played it better too but you get the point.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: campiador on February 14, 2018, 09:55:28 PM
Cathal, even in the video you shared the wingbacks and sidebacks always maintain a higher or equal position in the pitch.  Never behind the central defenders. Lullic did not notice he was way behind Radu and DV. That's all.

That said, given the current roster, I will just like Simone play Lulic for 65-70 minutes and then play Lukaku in the last 20 minutes to exploit the tiredness of opposition, because Lulic is more reliable defensively. But we have to plan ahead for next season.

The reason I stress this is so much is because our WB problem is not as conspicuous as the RCB issue.

My point is, Lulic is decent, but we need a better LWB if we intend to become a regular CL contender. Same with RWB.
In each of the other 9 positions, we have a really top player. We would be invincible if we had 11 top players. Lulic can be a valuable asset as the second option for LCM and also LWB. Hell with strong WBs, I really think we might have a shot at scudetto.

Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Roman_Eagle on February 15, 2018, 12:00:45 AM
Sure Radu could have played it better, nobody denies that. Also Strakosha played it poorly but when you have a striker 1on1 against you and no defenders close, it's hard to be too critical. And like I said before, I also give props to Napoli, they did so many things amazingly well to score. So it's like 60% on Lulic, 30% on Napoli being great, 5% on Radu not noticing what Callejon is doing and 5% on Strakosha not rushing forward more. Oh, and the midfielders could have played it better too but you get the point.

what are you exepcting from strakosha in this situation?
find a replay of the game and see how radu is jesturing at lulic after the goal and lulic does not reply...its obvious what the tactical instructions were
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 15, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
what are you exepcting from strakosha in this situation?

Jorginho's pass was in the air for 2 seconds and landed 14 yards from goal. If Strakosha comes for the ball, more than likely, he gets to the ball before Callejon.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cnon on February 15, 2018, 11:01:16 AM
Sure Radu could have played it better, nobody denies that. Also Strakosha played it poorly but when you have a striker 1on1 against you and no defenders close, it's hard to be too critical. And like I said before, I also give props to Napoli, they did so many things amazingly well to score. So it's like 60% on Lulic, 30% on Napoli being great, 5% on Radu not noticing what Callejon is doing and 5% on Strakosha not rushing forward more. Oh, and the midfielders could have played it better too but you get the point.

what are you exepcting from strakosha in this situation?
find a replay of the game and see how radu is jesturing at lulic after the goal and lulic does not reply...its obvious what the tactical instructions were

Rushing forward and making it harder for Callejon. Now he just stands there and waits for Callejon to shoot wherever he wants. I'm not blaming him for not saving, I'm only saying that he could have played it better.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Evesto on February 15, 2018, 11:10:44 AM
what are you exepcting from strakosha in this situation?

Jorginho's pass was in the air for 2 seconds and landed 14 yards from goal. If Strakosha comes for the ball, more than likely, he gets to the ball before Callejon.

Areola for PSG at Real last night.  Very similar.  He rushed out without hesitation and saved it.  Otherwise a sure goal by Ronaldo.  An alert and confident GK.

Strakosha wans't'awake the moment the pass took of, but just like several others.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: Cathal on February 15, 2018, 11:54:52 AM
If I was Inzaghi, I'd have made the following points to the team regarding the goal.

1) Lulic, be decisive. Either push up or track the runner.
2) Radu, bad call on the offside. Not the time to play it.
3) Strakosha, come off your line in these situations. Don't leave yourself a sitting duck.
4) Wallace, Marusic, pay attention to what's going on around you.
5) Luis Alberto, SMS, put some pressure on midfielders every once in a while and stop making it easy for them.

I think they are all valid points. I don't think blaming Lulic for not pushing up when he had his sights full of Callejon and little time is really the solution.

It was a catalogue or errors that led to that goal, and frankly, all the goals. It seemed to me that we had a gameplan to limit the space for Napoli between our defence and midfield and that led to Napoli finding a lot of space in behind our backline.
Title: Re: SSC Napoli - SS Lazio 4-1, 10/02/2018
Post by: blue_sky on February 15, 2018, 02:07:37 PM
If I was Inzaghi, I'd have made the following points to the team regarding the goal.

1) Lulic, be decisive. Either push up or track the runner.
2) Radu, bad call on the offside. Not the time to play it.
3) Strakosha, come off your line in these situations. Don't leave yourself a sitting duck.
4) Wallace, Marusic, pay attention to what's going on around you.
5) Luis Alberto, SMS, put some pressure on midfielders every once in a while and stop making it easy for them.

I think they are all valid points. I don't think blaming Lulic for not pushing up when he had his sights full of Callejon and little time is really the solution.

It was a catalogue or errors that led to that goal, and frankly, all the goals. It seemed to me that we had a gameplan to limit the space for Napoli between our defence and midfield and that led to Napoli finding a lot of space in behind our backline.
And who you fielded for the next game if all seem had proportion for the goal?
The point Inzaghi change their back 3 and wing back is because giving a variable for best solution. Last time Lukaku was fielded from the start. Last time also Bastos, Wallace and Caceres. It is giving a conclusion that only DV, Radu, Strakosha, SMS, Leiva Parolo and Ciro are on Inzaghi trust. The next is LA, Marusic, then the next is FA, Nani and Lukaku and the next is Bastos, Wallace, Caceres.